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Magnesium and Alz
mymothersdaughter
Posted: Sunday, January 15, 2012 11:18 AM
Joined: 1/1/2012
Posts: 2


Anyone else seen the new Life Extension article on magnesium and cognitive improvement. Thoghts?
Myriam
Posted: Sunday, January 15, 2012 12:42 PM
Joined: 12/6/2011
Posts: 3326


Is this the article you are talking about? I take a multi-vitamin that contains magnesium. I think most multi's do. 

 

 

Mice given extra doses of a new magnesium compound had better working memory, long-term memory and greater learning ability. 

 

Before you go popping heavy doses of magnesium, however, know that much more testing is needed. Though rodent brains work similarly to ours, animal studies do not always predict what will happen in humans.

 

"If MgT is shown to be safe and effective in humans, these results may have a significant impact on public health," said Guosong Liu, director of the Center for Learning and Memory at Tsinghua University in Beijing, China.

 

Magnesium is an essential element found in some fruits, spinach, and other dark leafy greens. It is known to be important for the immune system. Consume less than 400 milligrams a day and you may be at greater risk for allergies, asthma and heart disease.

 

The element was shown brain-boosting abilities in earlier studies using cultured brain cells. But the new compound — magnesium-L-threonate (MgT) — was tested in animals and found to be effective.

 

"We found that elevation of brain magnesium led to significant enhancement of spatial and associative memory in both young and aged rats," Liu said.

 

In young and aged rats, MgT increased plasticity among synapses, the connections among neurons, and boosted the density of synapses in the hippocampus, a critical brain region for learning and memory.

 

"Half the population of the industrialized countries has a magnesium deficit, which increases with aging," Liu said. "If normal or even higher levels of magnesium can be maintained, we may be able to significantly slow age-related loss of cognitive function and perhaps prevent or treat diseases that affect cognitive function."

 

The research is detailed in the Jan. 28 issue of the journal Neuron. Funding was provided by the National Institutes of Health, the National Basic Research Program of China and other institutions.

 

Liu, a former MIT professor, is cofounder of Magceutics, a California-based company developing drugs for prevention and treatment of age-dependent memory decline and Alzheimer's disease.



Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,584453,00.html#ixzz1jYNx8Pro

onward
Posted: Sunday, January 15, 2012 4:29 PM
Joined: 12/20/2011
Posts: 217


Thanks very much for the posts.

 

As y'all may remember, this new type of magnesium - magnesium-L-threonate - was discussed in a couple of threads in the old discussion forum.  But right now I can't locate those threads. 

 

(Note to the moderators:  Many of us hope that the complete archives of the old Medications/Treatments forum will be made available very soon, along with correct dates on the posts, correct names of the thread starters, and a good search engine.  Thank you!)

  

The animal studies of magnesium-L-threonate certainly sound promising, but obviously we really need the human studies to prove safety and efficacy.

 

More info on magnesium-L-threonate:

 

Enhancement of learning and memory by elevating brain magnesium
http://www.physiology.gu.se/medfys/kogvt11/Articles/Slutsky%202010%20Neuron.pdf 

 

Remember Magnesium If You Want to Remember: Synthetic Supplement Improves Memory and Staves Off Age-Related Memory Loss
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/02/100222162011.htm 

 

Magnesium Supplement Helps Boost Brainpower
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/01/100127121524.htm 

 

If I remember right... a while ago when I checked, magnesium-L-threonate was very difficult to get hold of.  But today I see it's now readily available in at least 2 different brands at amazon.com and elsewhere.

 

Sure hope the human studies will be completed soon.

   


Lane Simonian
Posted: Sunday, January 15, 2012 5:10 PM
Joined: 12/12/2011
Posts: 4986


Life Extension is running a clinical trial for Alzheimer's disease using nutrtional supplements. http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/life-extension-announces-recruitment-for-alzheimers-clinical-trial-in-south-florida-128381973.html They could not tell me for proprietary reasons what supplements they were using, but magnesium threonate is likely one of them.  http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2012/jan2012_Reversing-Brain-Decay_01.htm 

 

More studies are definitely needed.  It will be interesting, though, to see the results of this particular clinical trial using nutritional supplements and to compare it with the one conducted in Europe.http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/753674 

 

And yes, it would be such a help for all of us to have a complete and fully functional archive of the old boards.


mymothersdaughter
Posted: Sunday, January 15, 2012 5:48 PM
Joined: 1/1/2012
Posts: 2


Thanks for all the responses! I did try to run a search on the old threads but with no luck. Hopefully trials will get underway quickly...
onward
Posted: Sunday, January 15, 2012 5:55 PM
Joined: 12/20/2011
Posts: 217


Lane, thanks.  That info about the Life Extension clinical trial in Florida is dated late August of 2011, and they said the trial would be 17 to 18 weeks.  Did they give you any idea of when they hope to complete the trial and release the results?

 

Unfortunately I can't access this other page that you posted - http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/753674 - since it takes me to a log-in page.  Can you link to an alternate source?  (or give a quick summary of the info?)  Thank you.


Lane Simonian
Posted: Sunday, January 15, 2012 6:59 PM
Joined: 12/12/2011
Posts: 4986


I forgot to ask when the Life Extension trial would begin.  I will give them a call back this week to see if they have begun and when they expect to publish the results.

 

Sorry about the link going to the sign-in page.  I think you wrote about this study on the old boards, Onward, but it may be of interest to those hearing about it for the first time.

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2011-11/uoc--nih110411.php 


Lane Simonian
Posted: Monday, January 16, 2012 9:37 AM
Joined: 12/12/2011
Posts: 4986


The Life Extension trial using nutritional supplements along with Enbrel (Etanercept) for Alzheimer's disease has begun, although they will be taking participants through 2014.  Unfortunately, they won't have any results until 2015 or 2016.
onward
Posted: Monday, January 16, 2012 10:37 AM
Joined: 12/20/2011
Posts: 217


Lane, thanks very much for following up on that.

 

I just came across this other info that sounds more encouraging:

 

 Human data on memory-boosting magnesium compound expected mid-2012 

 

"Preliminary results of a human study into Magtein - a patent-pending magnesium compound called magnesium-L-threonate claimed to boost memory and cognitive function - will be available next year." [i.e., THIS year - 2012]

 

 

It's said to be a double-blind, placebo-controlled study with 40 volunteers.

 

Ages and cognitive status of the volunteers haven't been released yet.


Lane Simonian
Posted: Monday, January 16, 2012 4:41 PM
Joined: 12/12/2011
Posts: 4986


Thanks, Onward, for this potentially good news.  At least, we will have some more definitive information on magnesium and Alzheimer's disease later this year.
CR55
Posted: Thursday, January 19, 2012 12:06 PM
Joined: 12/21/2011
Posts: 13


Thanks for the thread, mymothersdaughter. I had seen the study before.

Now I saw that magnesium threonate has been available for a little while. Life Extension has it, Iherb sells it too. Swanson has their own product and Amazon sells both brands.

I ordered the capsules from Iherb, I will never order the powder because it contains calcium and my mother has mostly speech and balance problems because of calcium supplements and some other products she was given after a hip fracture. I can't find the thread about anesthesia where I talked about it in the old forum.



CR55
Posted: Thursday, January 19, 2012 12:16 PM
Joined: 12/21/2011
Posts: 13


By the way, threonine is recommended by this website for killng viruses. I don't know when and where it would separate from the magnesium. I would use hericium to regrow neurons, I know it works.

 

Quote in italics:

 

 

12/09/2011: Ted from Bangkok, Thailand writes: "Alzheimer's disease is commonly caused by a virus, usually the Herpes Simplex virus, that I see quite often. The standard of treatment is four hourly doses for a minimum of 3 days of lysine and threonine (helps excretion, kills the virus in neurons and immune system), between 500 mg to 1000 mg, but I use 1/4 teaspoon to 1/3 teaspoon doses, for each, usually 1/3 to 1/4 for lysine and 1/4 for threonine. Maintenance dose twice a day for each would be fine.   

  

 

Now many of my patients report no improvement in memory. Well, that remedy was meant to stop the progression of Alzheimer's caused by the virus. So other parameters did improve (socially, immune systems, etc.). But there is a second part, which is basically to restore or regrow the neurons.   

  

That is basically hydergine 1 to 4 mg and piracetam at least 800 mg dose. That is the minimum. But if you really want to get rid of the virus, then you need something in addition to the lysine, such as selenium 600 mcg (yeast form) and BHT (butylated hydroxytoluene) 1000 mg a day (such as 500 mg x 2) to get it completely out of the system in some cases because it prevents replication of the virus, both of them! So if the virus doesn't reproduce for long enough, you get 100% kill. The same thing with malaria and mosquitoes, if you don't allow them to reproduce, it is the most effective method. DDT kills but it doesn't prevent reproduction, and so they can become resistant. The same thing with bacteria and antibiotics. If the bacteria don't reproduce you also get 100% kill, but antibiotics just kill and the few that survive become resistant to the antibiotic. 

 

So the treatment of Alzheimer's disease is really a minimum of two stages, 1) kill the virus that causes it 2) restore some of the nerves destroyed (thus restoring the memory).  



http://www.earthclinic.com/CURES/alzheimers_disease.html

 

 

 

 

 


JAB
Posted: Thursday, January 19, 2012 12:19 PM
Joined: 11/30/2011
Posts: 740


onward wrote:

Unfortunately I can't access this other page that you posted - http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/753674 - since it takes me to a log-in page.  Can you link to an alternate source?  (or give a quick summary of the info?)  Thank you.

Onward, you should be able to register for the Medscape.com website for free.  And it's a very good website, well worth registering for.

onward
Posted: Thursday, January 19, 2012 12:43 PM
Joined: 12/20/2011
Posts: 217


JAB, thanks.
CR55
Posted: Thursday, January 19, 2012 1:01 PM
Joined: 12/21/2011
Posts: 13


After I began to suspect that my mother"s problems could be because of the calcium supplements, I found out about the need for magnesium for muscles, bones, the heart and 300 functions in the body.

So we have tried magnesium malate (recommended for fibromyalgia and said to remove aluminum from the brain), magnesium biglycinate and magnesium chloride. They all caused very soft stools for my mother, had very bad taste and seemed to make my mother's problems worse. So I stopped them after a few days. I mixed magnesium chloride with water and used it as magnesium oil, it spilled all over, so I put some on the hair, but it didn't seem to have any effect on my mother, so we stopped it too.

Now we have been taking the citrate powder that fizzles for a few days. The raspberry-lemon flavour has a good taste. We take a few sips throughout the day. So far, there is no diarrhea. It is making my mother's speech and balance problems a little worse, but I think it is probably a detox reaction, so I am sticking it out with around 50 mg for her for a while. I take more than that and I feel it has removed some anxiety in my stomach and tenderness in my breasts. It has eliminated my mother's snoring.

It is said that magnesium threonate doesn't have a big laxative effect, still it could have a little one. I don't know if it will taste good or not. I think it would be best for everybody ordering it to start very slowly and increase dosage gradually because of the possible laxative effect and detox reactions. It may be best to start with one capsule, spread throughout the day as advised here:

http://drcarolyndean.com/2011/01/magnesium-recommendations/

Three capsules of magnesium threonate only contain 144 mg of magnesium, so you can still take the fizzling powder for the rest of the body. The recommended daily intake for magnesium is 400 mg,
onward
Posted: Thursday, January 19, 2012 1:31 PM
Joined: 12/20/2011
Posts: 217


 

 

About magnesium-L-threonate...

 

In case anyone's interested, here's just a little basic info I found on threonine:

 

"As an essential amino acid, threonine is not synthesized in humans, hence we must ingest threonine or, more commonly, threonine-containing proteins.

"Fortunately, most proteins contain threonine and so a deficiency is unlikely. Foods high in threonine include milk, cottage cheese, poultry, fish, meat, lentils, sesame seeds, eggs, beans, corn, and various grains."

 


CR55
Posted: Friday, January 20, 2012 5:28 PM
Joined: 12/21/2011
Posts: 13


Yes, and threonine is of course in protein powders, along with other amino acids. Here is a link with a summary of what each of them does:

 

http://www.healingwithnutrition.com/aminoacid.html

 

Threonine

Is an important constituent of collagen, elastin, and enamel protein; helps prevent fat build-up in the liver; helps the digestive and intestinal tracts function more smoothly; assists metabolism and assimilation.

 

 


hmp100
Posted: Saturday, January 28, 2012 12:23 PM
Joined: 1/24/2012
Posts: 16


I put my LO on Magnesium L-Threonate several weeks ago without telling him (to avoid a placebo effect), and then I watched for any changes.

 

He has posterior cortical atrophy, and his visual ability has seemed to be the most direct gauge of the progress of his disease.  (He is now testing in the low teens on the MMSE, testing at 10, 15, and 11 over the last three tests.)

 

For the first two years after his diagnosis, he struggled to read and use his computer (although he recovered both skills to a limited degree early on with MCT oils, which we continue to use).  But in the past couple of months, I had noticed that he just quit trying.  He never picked up a magazine (even the entertainment ones that, with their pictures and one-paragraph articles, had been the easiest for him to handle) or a book, even his beloved spiritual text.

 

After several days on the Magnesium, I found his spiritual text lying open one morning on his bathroom counter.  I didn't say anything, just to see if he would mention it.  A couple of hours later, he walked into the den and said, "I can read again."  I asked what he meant, and he said the text had suddenly become a lot clearer to him.

 

Over the next few days I noticed him become a bit more talkative to me and especially around others, weighing in more often on the conversation.

 

His aphasia had worsened and remains at about the same level, and some apraxia had recently set in and seems undiminished.  So this hardly a global reawakening of his abilities.

 

But there has definitely been some improvement on the margins that seem to me to be more pronounced and sustained than the typical ups and downs of this disease.


onward
Posted: Saturday, January 28, 2012 1:28 PM
Joined: 12/20/2011
Posts: 217


hmp100, thanks very much for that encouraging report.  Please tell more, if you don't mind. 

 

What dosage? 

 

With meals? 

 

Any side effects? 

 

What brand?

 

Thanks again. 


hmp100
Posted: Saturday, January 28, 2012 2:37 PM
Joined: 1/24/2012
Posts: 16


Life Extension brand.  3 capsules a day, one upon waking, one with breakfast about an hour later, and one around 5:00 p.m.  No observed side effects.  I think the total daily dosage is 144 mg (however, the labeling is slightly ambiguous, and I cannot be sure the 144 mg is per capsule or "per serving" of 3 capsules).  In any case, I only give 3 capsules because the packaging warns against more -- although I have been tempted.
CR55
Posted: Monday, January 30, 2012 2:22 PM
Joined: 12/21/2011
Posts: 13


Hi hmp100. I think it is 144 mg of magnesium per 3 capsules. I will receive the magnesium threonate this week. I hope it will give my mother some improvement like it did for your husband.


onward
Posted: Friday, March 2, 2012 12:11 PM
Joined: 12/20/2011
Posts: 217


 

Recently I had opportunity to speak with someone knowledgeable about magnesium-L-threonate.  (I didn't get the person's name or exact credentials and am just reporting things as best I can remember.  So take it for what it's worth.  In case it might help someone, I'll pass along what I was told.)

IF I understand right...

There are currently 3 human studies planned, or in the works, for magnesium-L-threonate.  These are by Harvard, USC, and the Magtein company.  Because of government red tape, there can be long delays in getting clinical trials started.  Currently it's hoped that by the end of 2012 there will be results from at least one of the 3 trials.

Different brands of magnesium-L-threonate may have different suggested dosing schedules specified on their labels.  One company suggests 2 capsules in the morning and one later in the day.  Another company suggests 1 capsule 3 times daily.

 

The person to whom I spoke thinks 1 capsule 3 times daily is better because it keeps the doses spaced out more evenly so the person's exposure is kept more even.

 

However, for some people, dividing the same number of capsules into just 2 doses daily may result in better compliance because it's more convenient.

For elderly individuals, it may be best to start with 1 capsule daily and build up the dose slowly.

 

For someone with a magnesium deficiency, taking magnesium-L-threonate may result in immediate improvements.

 

For someone without a magnesium deficiency, taking magnesium-L-threonate may still bring an immediate improvement in sleep, but cognitive improvements might take 2 months.

 

Some of the possible benefits of magnesium-L-threonate that have been informally observed in humans and reported anecdotally are:

improvement in "working memory"
better focus
better stress management
better sleep

In people with later stage AD, recovery of ability to recognize people is one example of an improvement that has been reported anecdotally.

 

Anyone here who's observed positive changes from magnesium-L-threonate, please consider posting them in this thread.  Thanks. 


Lane Simonian
Posted: Friday, March 2, 2012 2:28 PM
Joined: 12/12/2011
Posts: 4986


Thank you for all this useful and promising information, Onward and to all the other posters as well.   I look forward to reading more about the effects of magnesium threonate.  All I can add is a possible mechanism of action.  Magnesium acts like a gate on the NMDA receptor.  When magnesium levels are low, calcium enters into neurons killing them and glutamate is released into surrounding cells damaging or killing most of these cells as well.  The one NMDA receptor antagonist approved for the treatment of Alzheimer's disease is Namenda.  From what I have read so far, magnesium is a better "blocker" of this receptor than Namenda and has the potential to be of greater benefit. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19356025 

The threonate not only helps with the absorption of magnesium in the brain, it most likely acts as an antioxidant itself.


onward
Posted: Friday, March 2, 2012 3:29 PM
Joined: 12/20/2011
Posts: 217


Thanks, Lane.  I've been following with interest your posts (though I'm not good enough at science to be able to understand the scientific reasonings behind these things).

 

I hope that as more people here on this board try these OTC possibilities like the magnesium-L-threonate and the essential oils, we'll get feedback on what works and what doesn't, and how to enhance any benefits. 


hmp100
Posted: Friday, March 2, 2012 4:46 PM
Joined: 1/24/2012
Posts: 16


My LO has been on MCT oil since September 2009, began magnesium L-threonate a couple of months ago, and is now sniffing essential oils out of bottles twice a day.  (He is also on mainstream meds, including Exelon and Namenda.)

 

It's very difficult to gauge what helps.  There were immediate, significant, and sustained improvements to his vision and motor skills when we started the MCT oil.

 

There were more marginal improvements to his vision within a week or two or starting the magnesium.

 

I have seen no detectable change since starting the essential oils about three weeks ago, although I have seen no decline.

 

The problem, of course, is that I have no idea where his disease would be today had we not started some of these therapies.  He was testing at 17-19 on the MMSE at the time of diagnosis in August 2009.  He is now testing at 10-15.  His aphasia has worsened in recent months, and some apraxia has set in.  And his short-term memory has remained severely impaired, although his longer-term memory seems to be no worse today than two years ago.

 

We had another alarm two weeks ago when he went in for an opthamalogic exam and the doctor said his optic nerves were abnormally pale, which is a sign of encroaching atrophy.  Shortly after his diagnosis two and a half years ago an eye exam showed pink and healthy-looking optic nerves . . . at least according to that opthamalogist.

 

I say "according to" the doctors, because I have found that many of the doctors' pronouncements -- especially related to Alzheimer's -- are based on subjective evaluation, and different doctors read the same tea leaves differently.

For instance, his first MRI was done in May 2009 when he was hospitalized with a sudden cognitive collapse.  Although the report indicated "mild cerebral volume loss and slight widening of the sulci", the attending physicians said there were no signs of brain disease and that his symptoms were the result of acute bipolar disorder.  They wanted him to accept commitment to a psychiatric unit which, thank goodness, his general practitioner fought.  My LO's brother is a geriatrician, and when I asked him about the MRI report, he said the report could be indicative of nothing more than normal age-related brain changes.  But then in August, when the same MRI was read by a neurologist at Northwestern University's Memory Clinic, he said abnormal atrophy of the posterior cortex was apparent on the May MRI.

 

Same thing with the two different opthamalogists.  The first one said the optic nerves had normal coloration.  The second one (over two years later) said they were pale.  Based on that, she did an optic nerve scan which, contrary to her expectation, showed normal thickness.  So I have no idea whether the optic nerve atrophy is just in the early stages of becoming visible, or whether the two different opinions are attributable to the variance in subjective assessment between two different doctors observing an unchanged condition.

 

In short, it is damnably difficult to track the progress of this disease . . . even for doctors.

 

I still have confidence in MCT oil as therapeutic, if not curative.  As for magnesium and essential oils, I'm not sure.  But, as they seem to cause no harm, I'm keeping up with them for the time being.

 

I have also had my LO on dimebon (obtained from Russia) for the past two years. The supply is soon to run out, and I am not going to procure any more.  Despite my lingering hopes, it really does appear to be a complete bust.


onward
Posted: Friday, March 2, 2012 6:56 PM
Joined: 12/20/2011
Posts: 217


hmp100, thanks very much for taking the time to post that update.
Lane Simonian
Posted: Friday, March 2, 2012 7:07 PM
Joined: 12/12/2011
Posts: 4986


Onward, this is exactly what I am looking for too.  It is important for us to learn from each other what OTC treatments appear to be working and in what combinations and doses.  Thank you hmp100 for the detailed information.  Yes, this is a very difficult disease to track and it may take months to determine what is working or to what degree.  Fortunately, the over the counter treatments you are using should do little to no harm (as you note) and should do some good.  It appears that some of these treatments (the MCT oil and the magnesium threonate) are already helping to some degree.  If a person begins to communicate more often and more lucidly and if that person becomes more engaged these may be some signs that the disease is being partially partially reversed.  OTC treatments are unlikely to correct all problems even those directly related to Alzheimer's disease, but given the lack of good alternatives, they at least offer the real possibility of improvement.