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The Bredesen Protocol
JackX
Posted: Tuesday, December 27, 2016 2:42 PM
Joined: 12/20/2016
Posts: 100


Just today, an online news introduced "The Bredesen Protocal"

 http://www.nola.com/healthy-eating/2016/12/11_changes_you_can_do_right_no.html

For majority of the caregivers, this is probably the only available and reliable source of information in assisting treating our loved ones, without too much difficulties, and with enough confidence. 

You can check out first the background of Dr. Dale Bredensen. Then you will find out that all the suggestions in the protocol would not harm your loved ones in any way. So I would know that even it would not cure my loved one, I would not harm him/her either. For me that is enough to start.

 

 

 


Lane Simonian
Posted: Thursday, December 29, 2016 12:23 PM
Joined: 12/12/2011
Posts: 4863


Thank you for your helpful posts.  I am going to be a bit lazy and copy and paste what I had posted on another site about the Bredesen protocol.


At the core, I only have three “scientific” objections to this protocol: one is that it is quite complicated so that it would be difficult for someone with memory impairment or their caregiver to follow, two it has not been determined which elements of the protocol may be most effective (some such as hormone replacement therapy may be counterproductive for some individuals), three it may be ineffective or much less effective for someone with mild to moderate Alzheimer’s disease.

The key pieces to Alzheimer’s disease is laid out in the following:

“Malinow’s team found that when mice are missing the PKC alpha gene, neurons functioned normally, even when amyloid beta was present. Then, when they restored PKC alpha, amyloid beta once again impaired neuronal function. In other words, amyloid beta doesn’t inhibit brain function unless PKC alpha is active.”

"The data indicate that… PKC activation mediates ONOO- [peroxynitrite] generation, which results in the oxidation and depletion of glutathione…"

"The hippocampi – the brain centres for learning and memory – are one of the earliest regions to be sabotaged by Alzheimer’s pathology. Our data revealed that GSH [glutathione] levels plummet in the hippocampi of patients with Alzheimer’s as well as those with MCI."

"A natural scavenger of peroxynitrites, rosmarinic acid, protects against impairment of memory induced by Abeta(25-35)."

Reducing stress (yoga, meditation, a walk in the woods, etc.), consuming less sugar, salt, and carbohydrates, reducing exposure to environmental toxins, treating chronic infections, etc. all reduce protein kinase C activation. But it is not a matter of simply inhibiting protein kinase C (which as the disease progresses likely remains high in only those with neuropsychiatric problems). The key is as the brain’s own antioxidant–glutathione–is exhausted–external antioxdiants must be used in its place. Several antioxidants were used in this protocol but likely not the most effective ones–particularly as the disease progresses. Here are links to clinical trials in which peroxynitrite scavengers were used to treat mild to moderate Alzheimer’s disease.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20377818

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22780999

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3659550/

This protocol while not perfect is a step in the right direction because much of it addresses the risk factors and likely cause of Alzheimer’s disease (oxidative stress).



JackX
Posted: Thursday, December 29, 2016 2:46 PM
Joined: 12/20/2016
Posts: 100


Thanks for the comments and very "scientific" objection. In order to reply I did two things first.

I visited two websites, to find out:

Dr. Bredesen is internationally recognized as an expert in the mechanisms of neurodegenerative diseases such as Alzheimer’s disease. He graduated from Caltech, then earned his MD from Duke University Medical Center in Durham, NC. He served as Chief Resident in Neurology at the University of California, San Francisco (UCSF) before joining Nobel laureate Stanley Prusiner’s laboratory at UCSF as an NIH Postdoctoral Fellow. He held faculty positions at UCSF, UCLA and the University of California, San Diego. Dr. Bredesen directed the Program on Aging at the Burnham Institute before coming to the Buck Institute in 1998 as its founding President and CEO.

Lane Simonian: History instructor. Alzheimer's disease researcher for the past decade.

That is as far as I would be able to go as a caregiver these days.

So thanks but no thanks.

Oh, I almost forgot maybe you could find out from Cochrane Report why people do not have interest on the aromatherapy these days. But I'm actually still using it, for other reasons.

 

 

 


Lane Simonian
Posted: Thursday, December 29, 2016 6:49 PM
Joined: 12/12/2011
Posts: 4863



Read the studies that I posted: you may or may not come to a different conclusion.

Here are also the latest reviews for the potential use of aromatherapy in the treatment of Alzheimer's disease.

http://europepmc.org/abstract/med/27281330

http://online.liebertpub.com/doi/abs/10.1089/acm.2015.0186

 

I am not a biologist, but I have a background in biology.  I have read hundreds of studies on Alzheimer's disease over the past twelve years, and while that does not make me an expert on Alzheimer's disease it also means that I have some useful insights into the causes of the disease and its treatment.  

You don't have to be a genius to understand this disease; you don't even have to be highly credentialed.  You need to be patient and thorough and able to adjust as new information comes forward.  You need to put all uncharitable comments aside and keep seeking answers.

 

 


Serenoa
Posted: Saturday, December 31, 2016 4:46 AM
Joined: 4/24/2012
Posts: 484


JackX, based on the article you posted, the dietary and lifestyle changes that Dr. Bredesen is recomending are great. I have done many of them myself. Eleminate sugar/processed carbs, fast for 12hrs a night to enter ketosis, eat lots of antioxidant-rich foods, exercise, meditate, sleep well, take vitamins if needed, etc. No argument with these things. These types of changes will improve the health and quality of life for anyone, and prevent many common diseases like diabetes. But of course, it's very difficult for people to change their habits. Many are addicted to their unhealthy lifestyle (I speak from personal experience).
MPSunshine
Posted: Sunday, January 1, 2017 7:54 AM
Joined: 5/21/2016
Posts: 2000


Interesting. Thank you for sharing.
JackX
Posted: Sunday, January 1, 2017 12:37 PM
Joined: 12/20/2016
Posts: 100


I forgot to point out that the report on the initial trial shows reversal of the symptoms on the 10 patients in the trial. So far this is the only report that showed reversal of the disease. The two papers are:

http://www.aging-us.com/article/NjJf3fWGKw4e99CyC/text

http://www.aging-us.com/article/9R5JsRe8k4Jq7uTXj/text


Iris L.
Posted: Sunday, January 1, 2017 1:24 PM
Joined: 12/15/2011
Posts: 16765


Serenoa wrote:
JackX, based on the article you posted, the dietary and lifestyle changes that Dr. Bredesen is recomending are great. I have done many of them myself. Eleminate sugar/processed carbs, fast for 12hrs a night to enter ketosis, eat lots of antioxidant-rich foods, exercise, meditate, sleep well, take vitamins if needed, etc. 
 
 
This is what Lane Simonian has been proposing for years on these boards, also Best Practices.  


I appreciate all that Lane and others have done to research and to make the results of the research more understandable for us.


Iris L.

JackX
Posted: Sunday, January 1, 2017 2:25 PM
Joined: 12/20/2016
Posts: 100


Really? 

Thanks for explaining what "science" means to you, and to the other two. So people could decide for themselves what they want.

 

 


Iris L.
Posted: Sunday, January 1, 2017 6:51 PM
Joined: 12/15/2011
Posts: 16765


This is usually a supportive board.  I will choose to overlook those who are not supportive.

Iris L.


JackX
Posted: Sunday, January 1, 2017 7:49 PM
Joined: 12/20/2016
Posts: 100


So you mean we should have two standards for what is "science". 

Yes that could be "supportive" in your standard, but not in the larger scope of human standard.

 

 


Lane Simonian
Posted: Sunday, January 1, 2017 11:05 PM
Joined: 12/12/2011
Posts: 4863


I should emphasize that I am not in any shape or form an opponent of the Bredesen protocol.  I was only pointing out the complexity of the protocol, the uncertainty about what measures are most effective, and the possibility that other antioxidant treatments are more effective.  Even Bredesen himself would likely acknowledge as much.

This is not the first time that Alzheimer's disease has been partially reversed.

Improvement of Cognitive Deficit in Alzheimer’s Disease Patients by Long Term Treatment with Korean Red Ginseng

A 24-week randomized open-label study with Korean red ginseng (KRG) showed cognitive benefits in patients with Alzheimer’s disease. To further determine long-term effect of KRG, the subjects were recruited to be followed up to 2 yr. Cognitive function was evaluated every 12 wk using the Alzheimer’s Disease Assessment Scale (ADAS) and the Korean version of the Mini Mental Status Examination (K-MMSE) with the maintaining dose of 4.5 g or 9.0 g KRG per d. At 24 wk, there had been a significant improvement in KRG-treated groups. In the long-term evaluation of the efficacy of KRG after 24 wk, the improved MMSE score remained without significant decline at the 48th and 96th wk. ADAS-cog showed similar findings. Maximum improvement was found around week 24. In conclusion, the effect of KRG on cognitive functions was sustained for 2 yr follow-up, indicating feasible efficacies of long-term follow-up for Alzheimer’s disease.

 2012 Nov;15(6):278-82. doi: 10.1179/1476830512Y.0000000027.

Heat-processed ginseng enhances the cognitive function in patients with moderately severe Alzheimer's disease.

Abstract

OBJECTIVES:

Ginseng has been reported to improve cognitive function in animals and in healthy and cognitively impaired individuals. In this study, we investigated the efficacy of a heat-processed form of ginseng that contains more potent ginsenosides than raw ginseng in the treatment of cognitive impairment in patients with moderately severe Alzheimer's disease (AD).

METHODS:

Forty patients with AD were randomized into one of three different dose groups or the control group as follows: 1.5 g/day (n = 10), 3 g/day (n = 10), and 4.5 g/day (n = 10) groups, or control (n = 10). The Alzheimer's Disease Assessment Scale (ADAS) and Mini-Mental State Examination (MMSE) were used to assess cognitive function for 24 weeks.

RESULTS:

The treatment groups showed significant improvement on the MMSE and ADAS. Patients with higher dose group (4.5 g/day) showed improvements in ADAS cognitive, ADAS non-cognitive, and MMSE score as early as at 12 weeks, which sustained for 24-week follow-up.

DISCUSSION:

These results demonstrate the potential efficacy of a heat-processed form of ginseng on cognitive function and behavioral symptoms in patients with moderately severe AD.

I respect everyone and all that has been posted on this thread.  You may not have realized how much I agreed with you on the general approach of the Bredesen protocol and I may have taken too much offense to what seemed like a dismissive response.

 


Iris L.
Posted: Monday, January 2, 2017 11:54 AM
Joined: 12/15/2011
Posts: 16765


We aim to be respectful of all members.  It can be difficult at times.  But that is our goal.


Iris L.


JackX
Posted: Monday, January 2, 2017 6:37 PM
Joined: 12/20/2016
Posts: 100


Oh, by all means. But first please tell me:

what do you three want to be respected as? Web message board "chemists"? on-board "biologist"? or "alzheimer's specialist"?

I can tell you one thing, for sure: I am not seeking any of the above on this board. So you'd better don't expect anything from me. 

Secondly, anyone wishes to be respected should at lease have some self-respect! Is that a common knowledge taught in kindergarten?

Have a nice day!


Lane Simonian
Posted: Monday, January 2, 2017 7:08 PM
Joined: 12/12/2011
Posts: 4863


Respected as human beings who have tried our best to understand the disease from a scientific perspective and to help from a care perspective.   
JackX
Posted: Monday, January 2, 2017 8:20 PM
Joined: 12/20/2016
Posts: 100


Then behave like it. I believe that the 10 patients who get their symptoms reversed under the care of Dr. Dale Bredesen would feel pity for some of your statements. As they know the difference. 

"Whoever saves one life, saves the world entire"

 


Lane Simonian
Posted: Monday, January 2, 2017 8:55 PM
Joined: 12/12/2011
Posts: 4863


The space between you and me is a lot smaller than you may at the moment appreciate. Whenever there is a partial reversal of Alzheimer's disease whether it be due to the Bredesen protocol, aromatherapy, panax ginseng, CBD oil, or Anavex 2-73 I am happy.  I am not committed to one particular treatment and as better treatments are discovered I will be the first to say "well done!".  

What has gotten under my skin over the years are the doubters and the haters: those who have used words like pseudoscience, voodoo, woo, idiot, imbecile, psycho, crank, pathetic, lowly history instructor, someone who can only copy and paste, snake oil salesman, purveyor of false hope, cherry picker, and freak.  These are the people who are the real obstacles to the Bredesen protocol and progress against Alzheimer's disease in general, not me.   


JackX
Posted: Friday, January 20, 2017 6:30 PM
Joined: 12/20/2016
Posts: 100


Update on the Bredesen Protocol:

1. You can watch the interview of Dr. Bredesen on NBC, which includes two of the 10 patients who got their disease reversed:

http://www.today.com/health/new-brain-program-may-fight-alzheimer-s-t104636

2. Dr. Bredesen is planning a large scale clinical practice, under his personal direction. This is not a double-blind clinical trial, since everyone is going to get the treatment under the Protocol.

 

 


Lane Simonian
Posted: Friday, January 20, 2017 7:37 PM
Joined: 12/12/2011
Posts: 4863


I hope and to a certain extent expect the positive results to continue.  If you remove the sources of oxidation early enough you have a chance to prevent the progression of the disease and with the appropriate antioxidants you can likely partially reverse the disease even past its earliest stages.
LDDaughter
Posted: Sunday, February 5, 2017 7:06 PM
Joined: 12/22/2011
Posts: 1065


I'm glad to see that the Bredeson protocol has been shared and posted up here.  I just discovered it in an article in a local paper and am getting the information to a friend who's husband is showing signs of early Alzheimer's.

We could be waiting years for a "cure" and anything that shows promise is worth taking a look at in my book.  Most medication trials for Alzheimer's have failed so I'm starting to wonder if the answer lies elsewhere. There's also some interesting work happening with infrared light therapy which I will post separately. 


Larrytherunner
Posted: Monday, February 6, 2017 9:49 AM
Joined: 2/26/2016
Posts: 229


Regarding the Bredesen protocol, I think he is recommending many things that we have already heard about, such as healthy eating, exercise, good oral care, enough sleep, mental stimulation, fasting, etc. These will in many people have positive effects in slowing down dementia and Alzheimer's. However even with these good habits, many of us will still be affected by these diseases. Therefore we will continue to look for effective drugs and other treatments.

I have to agree with JackX in some ways. Lane is not a scientist. Granted she has read a lot about Alzheimer's, but that doesn't make her a scientific authority. There is much incorrect and unproven scientific information out there which can lead a person in the wrong direction. Her explanations usually lead down the same path, using the words "antioxidants", "peroxynitrites", "rosmarinic acid", "aromatherapy" and "ginseng". How can nearly every question have a similar explanation?

Lane says that you don't have to be a genius to understand this disease. Well, scientists still don't completely understand this disease, and many are highly qualified with advanced degrees, who are actually working in labs and talking to other scientists, and no doubt, many could be called geniuses, or at least, very smart people. I think she should change her statement to "You don't have to be a genius to write about this disease".


JackX
Posted: Monday, February 6, 2017 2:31 PM
Joined: 12/20/2016
Posts: 100


If you reveal the truth about what kind of "genius" they are, they might as well attack your email services. So be "careful". 

I could not really understand, why they do wish to be such "genius" on this kind of message boards.


Lane Simonian
Posted: Monday, February 6, 2017 11:29 PM
Joined: 12/12/2011
Posts: 4863


I agree with Larrytherunner that the Bredesen protocol may be a part of the answer, but probably not the entire answer.  I think that Montelukast may in some cases provide some protection against Alzheimer's disease, but I don't think it is likely the entire answer either.

Would you find it strange if I said bacteria cause many different kinds of diseases? Then why are people surprised when I say peroxynitrite can cause many different kinds of diseases?

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2248324/

I find it somewhat odd how people try to speculate some kind of sinister motivation or character defect in my desire to post information that may help in the treatment of Alzheimer's disease. I am sharing information about what helped my mother, what other people have told me has helped them or a loved one, and what studies indicate are the likely causes and treatments of the disease. Each individual can judge whether any weight should be given to this or not.  Indeed the only thing that I have truly resented over the years are people who censored or tried to censor me.

I will put a list of items together and you can determine whether they have any merit.

Widespread Peroxynitrite-Mediated Damage in Alzheimer’s Disease

...peroxynitrite formation in cerebral blood vessels is needed for the cerebrovascular effects of Abeta...These effects of Abeta were abolished by ROS scavengers (tempol, MnTBAP), NADPH oxidase inhibition (gp91ds-tat), NOS inhibition (L-NNA) and by the peroxynitrite decomposition catalyst FeTPPS or PARP inhibition (PJ34; Fig. 4c–e). Thus, Abeta leads to endothelial DNA damage and PARP activation via oxidative–nitrosative stress.

Furthermore, conditioned media derived from CT105 [c terminal fragment of the amyloid precursor protein]-treated astrocytes enhanced neurotoxicity and pretreatment with NO and peroxynitrite scavengers attenuated its toxicity.

A natural scavenger of peroxynitrites, rosmarinic acid, protects against impairment of memory induced by Abeta(25-35).

TNF-alpha induces peroxynitrite-mediated depletion of lung endothelial glutathione via protein kinase C

Malinow’s team found that when mice are missing the PKC alpha gene, neurons functioned normally, even when amyloid beta was present. Then, when they restored PKC alpha, amyloid beta once again impaired neuronal function. In other words, amyloid beta doesn’t inhibit brain function unless PKC alpha is active.

Evaluation of the peroxynitrite scavenging activity of heat-processed ginseng.

Heat-processed ginseng enhances the cognitive function in patients with moderately severe Alzheimer's disease.

 

I am not asking people to take some leap into some gigantic unknown, only to connect a few dots. Now people can find all sorts of reasons not to connect the dots.  Some people believe what they want to believe and no amount of evidence can ever change that.  "Extraordinary claims; require extraordinary evidence."  I cannot say the evidence is extraordinary, but I don't think extraordinary is far away.


ALZConnected Moderator
Posted: Tuesday, February 7, 2017 8:32 AM
Joined: 8/17/2011
Posts: 332


To ensure that ALZConnected remains a positive and supportive environment, the Alzheimer’s Association reserves the right to remove any post or thread that is deemed unsupportive or unconstructive to the community. When posting on this thread please adhere to the user-guidelines below. Violation of these guidelines may result in Moderator action to lock or delete the thread.

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  • If you disagree with a participant’s post or opinion and wish to challenge it, do so with respect. The real objective of the ALZConnected community is to promote discussion and understanding, not to convince others your opinion is “right”. 
Thank you.


JackX
Posted: Monday, May 22, 2017 3:11 PM
Joined: 12/20/2016
Posts: 100


Another California Physician helps his patient slowing AD progression, FOR REAL:

http://www.ocregister.com/2017/05/19/o-c-doctor-figures-out-way-to-stop-alzheimers-progression/

 


Iris L.
Posted: Tuesday, May 23, 2017 8:17 PM
Joined: 12/15/2011
Posts: 16765


Best Practices in action!  This is what I've been doing for the past eight years.  Thanks for posting, JackX.  I will post this on the YOAD board.

Iris L.