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More on Masks
Crushed
Posted: Tuesday, June 2, 2020 2:58 AM
Joined: 2/2/2014
Posts: 5656


A new meta analysis of masks was just published in Lancet. According to the analyss , masks are protective of the wearer, although not perfect 

For the general public, evidence shows that physical distancing of more than 1 m is highly effective and that face masks are associated with protection, even in non-health-care settings, with either disposable surgical masks or reusable 12–16-layer cotton ones, although much of this evidence was on mask use within households and among contacts of cases. Eye protection is typically under considered and can be effective in community settings. However, no intervention, even when properly used, was associated with complete protection from infection. Other basic measures (eg, hand hygiene) are still needed in addition to physical distancing and use of face masks and eye protection

  https://www.thelancet.com/pdfs/journals/lancet/PIIS0140-6736(20)31142-9.pdf

If I am reading the article correctly Each distance unit helps reduce infection out to about 10 feet (3 m)


Donr
Posted: Tuesday, June 2, 2020 5:00 AM
Joined: 4/6/2014
Posts: 476


Appreciate the information to clarify the questions about using a face mask. Like what was mentioned, not perfect but better then none.
Ed1937
Posted: Tuesday, June 2, 2020 6:36 AM
Joined: 4/2/2018
Posts: 2918


Good info. Thanks.
jfkoc
Posted: Tuesday, June 2, 2020 10:29 AM
Joined: 12/4/2011
Posts: 18527


that many layers???
zauberflote
Posted: Tuesday, June 2, 2020 12:07 PM
Joined: 10/24/2018
Posts: 1093


Thank you Crushed!  Jfkoc that's what it said, Crushed wrote it exactly as the article printed it So I took and folded one of my cloth double-layer masks, made of a fabric which Would be suitable for covering casual cushions or throw pillows, and 16 layers is as thick as a Nabisco honey graham cracker. I have no idea how you'd make something thicker than most Men's leather boots mold to your face! They would have to be carefully tailored individually....

So we are kind of back where we started....should I wear 8 of what I've got? LOL

In an attempt to add some musical levity to yesterday's discussion, I was going to post a photo of the business end of my flute wearing a mask. If I need 8 masks, I'm not even going to try!


Crushed
Posted: Tuesday, June 2, 2020 12:09 PM
Joined: 2/2/2014
Posts: 5656


zauberflote wrote:

Thank you Crushed!  Jfkoc that's what it said, Crushed wrote it exactly as the article printed it So I took and folded one of my cloth double-layer masks, made of a fabric which Would be suitable for covering casual cushions or throw pillows, and 16 layers is as thick as a Nabisco honey graham cracker. y!


2 layer masks protect other other people  thick masks protect YOU


McCott
Posted: Tuesday, June 2, 2020 12:57 PM
Joined: 8/22/2017
Posts: 425


I wear a mask in stores and wherever there are other people (except of course at home).
But it seems to me that the mask causes me to breathe in my own CO2.  Are there masks than include some ventilation?  The N95, perhaps?
jfkoc
Posted: Tuesday, June 2, 2020 2:08 PM
Joined: 12/4/2011
Posts: 18527


what the word on face schields???
Lorita
Posted: Tuesday, June 2, 2020 2:34 PM
Joined: 12/18/2011
Posts: 11781


Sara has made a face shield and wears it.  However, she was having problems with it fogging up - don't know if she's worked out the problem or not.

 Who in the world could wear a face mask with that many layers and still be able to breathe?    Even the surgical masks aren't that easy to breathe with them on - even my doctor says he has trouble.  I made one with two cloth layers and one layer of interfacing -  haven't worn it yet but I think it would be hard to breathe with it on. I wore a surgical face mask this morning when I went to the vets and even it was hot. If you live in the north where it's cooler, maybe so - but not here.

 If a face mask you wear protects someone else - it only stands to reason it would protect you from other people.  Think about it.  Wear one if you want to and feel the need and don't wear one if you don't want to.  It's an individual decision.


SunnyBeBe
Posted: Tuesday, June 2, 2020 3:08 PM
Joined: 10/9/2014
Posts: 1094


I saw a story recently on the mask vs. the clear plastic shield and they concluded that both worn together was the best. The shield protects the eyes, which is good.  I always wear my mask out and sometimes two at once, depending on the local.  But, I also wear eye protection, so, I'm thinking that the plastic face shield my fog less than my glasses.  So, I'm considering wearing both, at the risk of some odd looks, which doesn't bother me at all.  I welcome it. lol 

I also saw a piece that said the masks with a vent are good at protecting the one wearing it, but, not others, unless you have it adapted to protect others. Maybe, someone knows more on that. The people on the street who were confronted had no idea. They thought it protected others as well.  

I recently saw some mask online that were geared to show the lips for those who read lips. The mouth is covered with clear plastic and the rest is cloth.  It's designed for those who have people in their lives who need to read their lips.  It's quite popular and were on back order, so, I didn't order any.  


Ed1937
Posted: Tuesday, June 2, 2020 4:28 PM
Joined: 4/2/2018
Posts: 2918


Lorita wrote:

Sara has made a face shield and wears it.  However, she was having problems with it fogging up - don't know if she's worked out the problem or not. 

Tell her to rub some shaving cream on it, then wipe it off. Inside only is necessary. I've tried that with safety goggles, and it seems to help a lot.



zauberflote
Posted: Tuesday, June 2, 2020 7:43 PM
Joined: 10/24/2018
Posts: 1093


Crushed, that's what I was afraid of!

It seems to me that a large enough face shield, hemmed with drape-y fabric at the bottom over the shoulders, would protect more than just eyes. It would provide an impermeable barrier to all the air at face level. Of course, breathing could then be very problematic. 

Whoever came up with the lip-readable masks is very smart! 


Crushed
Posted: Tuesday, June 2, 2020 8:31 PM
Joined: 2/2/2014
Posts: 5656


Ed1937 wrote:
Lorita wrote:

Sara has made a face shield and wears it.  However, she was having problems with it fogging up - don't know if she's worked out the problem or not. 

Tell her to rub some shaving cream on it, then wipe it off. Inside only is necessary. I've tried that with safety goggles, and it seems to help a lot.

 


Divers use baby shampoo to avoid irritating chemicals.


 


elainechem
Posted: Wednesday, June 3, 2020 2:52 AM
Joined: 7/30/2013
Posts: 6033


Crushed wrote:
zauberflote wrote:

Thank you Crushed!  Jfkoc that's what it said, Crushed wrote it exactly as the article printed it So I took and folded one of my cloth double-layer masks, made of a fabric which Would be suitable for covering casual cushions or throw pillows, and 16 layers is as thick as a Nabisco honey graham cracker. y!


2 layer masks protect other other people  thick masks protect YOU

Wearing a thick mask could kill me. I have asthma and anything that restricts the free flow of oxygen to my face can cause me to have an attack. I actually knit a mask for myself using acrylic yarn. If you hold it up to your eyes, you can easily see through it. I understand that it will not protect anyone from anything, but it's the best that I can do. 

Michael Ellenbogen
Posted: Wednesday, June 3, 2020 5:20 AM
Joined: 11/30/2011
Posts: 3200


I am not arguing on the use of face masks but have some real concerns on what we are doing may have some bad out comes over time that we are not aware of yet. Many people are put together all kinds of masks made from different types of material. Are all of those material safe to be breathing the air flow thru them. The material was not designed with that in mind. I don’t know the answer to this but it is something someone should be thinking about. I also learned there is no one you can trust to tell you the truth on what to do any more. Who can you believe? 


Crushed
Posted: Wednesday, June 3, 2020 6:03 AM
Joined: 2/2/2014
Posts: 5656


Clean cotton is one of the safest textile materials we have.  Whenever it is washed the short or broken fibers come off as Lint in the dryer.  (My first academic appointment was in Home Economics, I learned a lot from the textile folks.  

Research has found that “quilter’s cotton” filters out a lot of particles, especially tight weaves with thicker threads, such as batik. Masks with cotton outer layers and flannel inner layers also work well. Another study on how well fabrics filtered out certain germs recommended a pillowcase or cotton T-shirt because of its stretch.

 https://www.webmd.com/lung/coronavirus-face-masks#2

IMHO recycled extra long staple cotton sheets or pillowcases  make the best "outer material"   

Pima and Egyptian cotton fall in this  category  


White Crane
Posted: Wednesday, June 3, 2020 6:50 AM
Joined: 2/27/2017
Posts: 173


Thanks, Crushed.
Michael Ellenbogen
Posted: Wednesday, June 3, 2020 7:31 AM
Joined: 11/30/2011
Posts: 3200


This is the kind of information they should be sharing with the public. So many masks are now being sold every were.  I would wonder how many of them are inferior. I also wonder why no one is teaching people how to use them, So many just cover there mouths and not nose. That does not accomplish anything and so many get the wrong idea.  


jfkoc
Posted: Wednesday, June 3, 2020 9:52 AM
Joined: 12/4/2011
Posts: 18527


the $64K question...what mask are you wearing?????
Crushed
Posted: Wednesday, June 3, 2020 11:00 AM
Joined: 2/2/2014
Posts: 5656


jfkoc wrote:
the $64K question...what mask are you wearing?????

 

 I have a number .    I have two r 95 masks , 3  2  3ply cotton made by my sister and  a numer fo disposable surgical masks left over  from my grandson's birth.  I wear glasses all the time and consider them extra protection I do wash them  and the masks  I have both latex and food quality gloves which I use onetime and discard.    I wore the R 9r to the bank and cloth to the gas station and when i drop off stuff for DW.  I stay in my car for grocery pickup.  They put it in the trunk and I drive away 

Biggest hassle is not letting ear loops pull my hearing aids off


jfkoc
Posted: Wednesday, June 3, 2020 11:28 AM
Joined: 12/4/2011
Posts: 18527



 Thank you and thank you for the hearing aid share....I thought I was the only one
eaglemom
Posted: Wednesday, June 3, 2020 6:12 PM
Joined: 3/7/2012
Posts: 2508


Some good info, thanks. When I wear a mask I start to hyperventilate.Then my glasses fog up even more, then I breath even heavier!! Its a vicious circle. I've done all I know to make the mask have 'seal' around my nose & face.

I've found I can take my glasses off and do much better - with the exception of being able to see!! I wonder if those vented type of masks would help? I plan to just deal with it - no way I'm stepping foot out of this house without a mask. Not that we go many places at all.

eagle


jfkoc
Posted: Wednesday, June 3, 2020 6:34 PM
Joined: 12/4/2011
Posts: 18527


my glasses fogged up and my hearing aid fell out...so much for going to a Dr's appt...lol
Lorita
Posted: Wednesday, June 3, 2020 7:37 PM
Joined: 12/18/2011
Posts: 11781


Monday when I took Lilly and Barclee to the vets I wore a mask - also wouldn't go anywhere without one.  After I carried both of them in, it was kind of hard to breathe with it on but no one else had one on so I kept it and it finally got better, then the fogging up stopped.

 You know if you wore a vented one, wouldn't that defeat the purpose?  Not sure - haven't seen them.  I did see those with the clear piece over the mouth to enable people to read lips - that was a smart person who devised that.

Judith, what about wearing masks with ties instead of the elastic over the ears.  I don't think the ties would interfere with the hearing aids. 


Donr
Posted: Thursday, June 4, 2020 5:10 AM
Joined: 4/6/2014
Posts: 476


When I take my mask off the hearing aids pop off too. The first time it happened one of mine some how ended up under the drivers seat. Took awhile to find.