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The crime of manipulation.
kellly
Posted: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 10:30 AM
Joined: 6/12/2015
Posts: 1131


I think technically the word "manipulation" means to move anything around - to decide on placement or for whatever other reason. (Spoiler: I did not google this)

When commonly used in the psychological sense, the word implies a deliberate crafting of events, interpretation, comments made, suggestions, etc. with the aim of "adjusting" someone else's thoughts to how the maniuplator wants them to be, to serve some ends other than the free and independent thoughts and attitudes of the person being manipulated, and sometimes to the detriment of the other person. And yes, sociopaths are experts at manipulation since it's a key part of their job skills.

You can influence someone else either in a manipulative way or not. Influence would allow someone to interpret things however they do and come to their own beliefs and conclusions independently of what the other person desired them to think. You can show them facts about a topic that they were previously unaware of and it might change their thinking, so that would be influence but not necessarily psychological manipulation, since any change in their thoughts would be of their own volition and of no consequence either way to the person who presented them with those facts. Friends can influence their friends - just look at a bunch of high school aged friends who dress in similar fashion to the others in their group. But that's voluntarily done to "fit in" with the friends of their choosing. 

If you manipulate the colors of your garden plants it's unlikely that your motive would be to be to gain some kind of psychological leverage over the observers of the garden to be more in line with what you want them to think to serve some purpose you have in advance to benefit you but not them. 

A kid who's crying from hurt or fear is probably influencing his parents' behavior. But the kid who says, "Watch this" and then starts crying in order to get his parents to perform some predicted desired behavior is probably manipulating them.


Underdog
Posted: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 11:04 AM
Joined: 6/25/2017
Posts: 327


Look, I can solve this conflict easily.

It's not a matter of just not opening a post or choosing not to reply to it. It's false advertising.

What simply could be done is to rename this section "Musings, Politics And Religion".

That would end all reasons for complaining. Just like there is a section for LGBT support, and people don't go there to say it shouldn't be there or to fight (I assume).

If Musings were renamed, people would expect discussion, rebuttal and conflict, it would be on them if they participated. I would never complain (or participate).

Musings is a misleading title. It implies what would be found there would be edifying to dementia sufferers, not what is overwhelmingly here, insults toward religion and conservatism and an homage to one person. 

But yes, a lot of times dictionaries contain multiple definitions of words. Sometimes you have to look for the appropriate definition that fits the context of how the word was used. It takes effort, but it helps you look rational.

 

 


jfkoc
Posted: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 12:50 PM
Joined: 12/4/2011
Posts: 18962


Religion and Politics are discussed on other boards. Why is it bothersome to discuss them here?


Jim Broede
Posted: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 1:40 PM
Joined: 12/22/2011
Posts: 5462


Anyway, I'm smiling, too. Temperature here in Minnesota going  to top off at a sunny 40 degrees today. First time in several weeks that we've been above freezing. Feels like an early summer. I may go out in shirtsleeves. If I had a convertible, the top would come down. Amazing. Yes, 40 degrees. Seems much warmer in February than it would in September. Ah, blessed life. Always something to savor. --Joyful Jim
Jim Broede
Posted: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 1:44 PM
Joined: 12/22/2011
Posts: 5462


Let's have a celebration of joy, everyone. How about it? Goodwill and camaraderie, too. --Jim
Underdog
Posted: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 2:09 PM
Joined: 6/25/2017
Posts: 327


Please Jim, don't hijack this thread from the intention of the original poster.

He wants to talk about manipulation.

Not flowers, not joy, not the weather,... manipulation.


jfkoc
Posted: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 2:24 PM
Joined: 12/4/2011
Posts: 18962


You have reduced my comments about manipulation to "flowers"? 

Wow. I thought my example would be easily understood. Sorry I was not able to communicate better. Oh, well......


Underdog
Posted: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 2:54 PM
Joined: 6/25/2017
Posts: 327


Nice try jfkoc, manipulation almost always contains deceit and lies as an element.

Your example of flowers wasn't a metaphor of any kind. It was a muddying of the waters. A distraction. I dealt with it in my description of manipulation. Even up to pretending ignorance.

You need to understand that dictionaries include multiple definitions of the same word, same in that it is spelled the same, many are even pronounced the same. Many words have multiple meanings.

Usually the words are numbered. Some words are both nouns and adjectives. And I can't even begin to tell you about synonyms. (This is an example of mocking) (Jim calls it humor)


Jim Broede
Posted: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 3:40 PM
Joined: 12/22/2011
Posts: 5462


Check it out, Underdog. I am the original poster. I started this thread. Hard for me to hijack my own thread. We're all being manipulated. One way or another. At the moment. Maybe we are both manipulating each other. It's a team effort. Do you play tennis? I want you as my partner in a doubles match. That would make us both winners. We could share the glory of victory. If we lose. I'll joke about it. I like the way you've been sounding lately. And I followed your good advice. About the deletion. I like your exchange with jfkoc  She needs the challenge. She's up to it. -Jim
Underdog
Posted: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 4:22 PM
Joined: 6/25/2017
Posts: 327


Can we hijack our own threads, sounds like it could make a thread discussion by itself.

Tennis is great fun, but are we really going to pretend forever that there is nothing wrong with the way we keep score in tennis?

Love? 15, 30, 40, game? What's that all about? The first two points are worth 15 but the third point is only 10? And then out of the blue game? Why not sofa, pen, bicycle tire, game? Works just as good.

And what's with Barney Fife? So many people think he's so endearing but really he's kind of a jerk.

And if I don't open my mail, does that mean it never got to me?


jfkoc
Posted: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 4:41 PM
Joined: 12/4/2011
Posts: 18962


fine...you are right...I was using a metaphor to manipulate you...next topic?
kellly
Posted: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 4:41 PM
Joined: 6/12/2015
Posts: 1131


Underdog, LOL
Underdog
Posted: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 5:08 PM
Joined: 6/25/2017
Posts: 327


Thank you jfkoc, I appreciate that. Confession is good for the soul. You should be feeling a sense of peace soon.

But here's some good advice... You should never name the flowers in your garden, just in case the circumstance should come up where you might have to eat them. 

I don't know how long it's been since I've eaten a Pop Tart, but I can estimate according to the box I found at the back of my pantry's expiration date with one package missing, it's been two years. I'm afraid to eat them but I sure want one. I should go buy some Pop Tarts.


kellly
Posted: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 5:12 PM
Joined: 6/12/2015
Posts: 1131


I always thought pop tarts lasted for at least 40,000 years. I don't think whether they're fresh or not would compromise their quality.
Underdog
Posted: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 5:20 PM
Joined: 6/25/2017
Posts: 327


Ok, I'll try it. But I'm getting a screen grab of you saying it's ok, just in case this winds up being a lawsuit.

Just stop it with your lies, Sharing Size Peanut M&M's!


kellly
Posted: Thursday, February 15, 2018 10:39 AM
Joined: 6/12/2015
Posts: 1131


Ok, it's Thursday morning now, Underdog. Did you eat the Pop Tart? Are you still alive?
Jim Broede
Posted: Thursday, February 15, 2018 11:20 AM
Joined: 12/22/2011
Posts: 5462


I never craved a pop tart. When I recently spent two weeks in France. So much easier to settle for superior French pastries. Really, the same goes for old world German and Italian pastries. I'm hooked. I've been willingly manipulated. Into rarely passing by a pastry shop. Little wonder that I find it necessary to walk 10 miles a day, In order to remain svelte. --Jim
kellly
Posted: Thursday, February 15, 2018 2:56 PM
Joined: 6/12/2015
Posts: 1131


Nice humblebrag, Jim. I've never had the opportunity to be in France eating superior pastries. Or Germany or Italy eating superior foods there either. And I've never eaten a Pop Tart myself. I was just checking up on Underdog to make sure the expired Pop Tarts weren't poison.
jfkoc
Posted: Thursday, February 15, 2018 3:07 PM
Joined: 12/4/2011
Posts: 18962


I will join in the humblebrag. The best croissants ever were in a ho hum hotel in Paris. Maybe it's the water.

Whole Foods makes a wonderful chocolate croissant and Trader Joes frozen almond croissants are excellent.

Did you see the movie It's Complicated? Meryl Streep is a chef. Delightbul.

I would never attempt handling the number of layers. I think she used a pasta machine. I have on and homemade pasta is worth the effort.


Jim Broede
Posted: Thursday, February 15, 2018 3:26 PM
Joined: 12/22/2011
Posts: 5462


Another don’t miss movie. ‘The 100-Foot Journey.’ Helen Mirren is terrific. The Kadam family leaves India for France where they open a restaurant directly across the road from Madame Mallory's Michelin-starred eatery. --Jim


skericheri
Posted: Thursday, February 15, 2018 5:42 PM
Joined: 12/10/2011
Posts: 287


 

The infusion of levity has improved this thread.  It reminds me of the days  when I was actively posting.  I was part of a  group of posters we referred to as the back fence group on the musing thread.   We were basically a non-judgmental group that used to come together share some of our daily activities,  thoughts, recommendations,  exchange ideas as well as poetry and jokes.   There was a place for anyone who wanted to share. 

 Jim, I probably dislike our current president as much as you...but there is more to life than the current administration...ponderings on the universe...the meaning of life.  Please stop beating the same drum.  Bring it down a notch and get some new material. 

 My favorite movies are The Gods Must Be Crazy...All That Jazz.  Recently watched an interesting one called Sirens.  Because of nudity some might consider it pornographic...but...It was handled in a very nice way. 


TiggerPooh
Posted: Thursday, February 15, 2018 5:50 PM
Joined: 2/15/2018
Posts: 94


Great! I'm all about levity. I have a joke about hijacking threads. How can you hijack a thread if you don't know how to fly a plane and you don't know how to sew? You shoot off at the mouth.
MissHer
Posted: Thursday, February 15, 2018 7:23 PM
Joined: 11/13/2014
Posts: 2345


Humblebrag.. I like! I can get 3 donuts for $1.00 at the nearest Kwik Star. Now that's something to brag about, saved thousands! lol
Jim Broede
Posted: Thursday, February 15, 2018 7:34 PM
Joined: 12/22/2011
Posts: 5462


For those of you who don’t like the topics I raise. I have a recommendation. A solution. Participate. Participate. Participate. Post your stuff here. Regularly. Don’t leave it up to me. To do your bidding. Instead of telling me to change the subject. And to change my ways. Do it yourselves. Set the example. Bring the balance you desire. Right here. Every week. Every day.  Outnumber me. Take over Musings. That includes you Skericheri. All of you complainers. I came here. When Musings went without a single post. For weeks. A good week was 5 or 6 posts. I stepped in. And tried to bring life to Musings. If that life doesn’t suit you – well then pump in your styles of musing. There’s plenty of room here to do that. Don’t allow me to carry Musings. Make me a relatively small part of it. Let’s make Musings a real team effort. I’ll be happy to take a smaller role. And let the rest of the team dominate. Come. Come. One and all. Give me a backseat. I don’t have to drive.  -Jim


ruthmendez
Posted: Thursday, February 15, 2018 7:57 PM
Joined: 9/8/2017
Posts: 2314


HI!  I heard there's a party going down here!  What's this all about??  What do we do?  Say whatever you want, do whatever you want, screw whoever you want?!! Sounds like fun!  This seems like an interesting wild forum!  I don't know why I haven't peeked in here before! Just messing
jfkoc
Posted: Thursday, February 15, 2018 8:17 PM
Joined: 12/4/2011
Posts: 18962


Not everything goes. One can get edited here as well.

Ah, the doughnut. I bet you can only get a good one here in the good old USA.

My favorite is plain cake. I do not know where a Kwik is here but will keep my eyes open and get three!


kellly
Posted: Thursday, February 15, 2018 8:20 PM
Joined: 6/12/2015
Posts: 1131


I loved The Gods Must Be Crazy! And I just found it at a thrift store on DVD! Now I can watch it again!
kellly
Posted: Thursday, February 15, 2018 8:28 PM
Joined: 6/12/2015
Posts: 1131


Jim, I think it would be impossible to outnumber you on this board. In the past 24 hours you posted more than 25 new topics, some within just a few minutes of each other. Did you know that there's an "edit" button, and it allows you to reopen something you just wrote and change or add to it? You could post longer messages on several topics without having to start a new topic every few minutes to say something else.
Bob Sacamano
Posted: Thursday, February 15, 2018 8:51 PM
Joined: 1/31/2012
Posts: 501


Kellly,

Those are old posts. If you scroll to the end of the threads, you'll see that they are showing up again because a member is adding new replies. 


ruthmendez
Posted: Thursday, February 15, 2018 9:22 PM
Joined: 9/8/2017
Posts: 2314


And there's a couple of new members, that's really an old member....I guess you can open up multiple accounts????  How?
MissHer
Posted: Thursday, February 15, 2018 9:27 PM
Joined: 11/13/2014
Posts: 2345


Maybe multiple email addresses. My question would be, why??
ruthmendez
Posted: Thursday, February 15, 2018 9:33 PM
Joined: 9/8/2017
Posts: 2314


It looked to me like someone was quite pissed all last night up to this morning. That's what got my attention.

jfkoc
Posted: Thursday, February 15, 2018 9:34 PM
Joined: 12/4/2011
Posts: 18962


yes, it does seem like some have either changed their names or are posting under two names here as well as on the other boards
MissHer
Posted: Thursday, February 15, 2018 9:35 PM
Joined: 11/13/2014
Posts: 2345


Right, but why get two more accounts?
ruthmendez
Posted: Thursday, February 15, 2018 9:38 PM
Joined: 9/8/2017
Posts: 2314


it looked like someone was trying to drive someone else nuts or something.  Wouldn't doubt that that someone is watching us right now as we speak....kinda makes me feel like closing all my curtains...creepy scary.