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delayed sleep phase disorder
llee08032
Posted: Saturday, August 30, 2014 9:28 AM
Joined: 5/20/2014
Posts: 4408


Iris,


The sleep tech at my sleep study mentioned light therapy but not in detail. I hope your on to something. Please try to relax, meditate and get rest in other way's. I'm sorry to hear your losing sleep again after all the effort you have made!


Iris L.
Posted: Saturday, August 30, 2014 12:28 PM
Joined: 12/15/2011
Posts: 17888


Thanks, Ilee.  I had an appointment at the ophtalmology office and in reading the magazines I came across a big article in a science magazine about sleep.  It mentioned that patients with schizophrenia who have poor sleep have more incidence of delusions and hallucination.   

 

I wouldn't be surprised that poor sleep is related to the delusions and hallucinations that patients with dementia have.  Patients with dementia have sundowning, wandering at night, aggression, aggitation--I'm sure a lot of this is related to poor sleep.   

 

I'm going to be checking into this.  If better sleep could improve the quality of life for patients with dementia, this is worth investigating.   

 

As for me, I still have some sleep debt.  Last night I got 9 hours, beginning from shortly after midnight.  I have to keep working at it and stay consistent.

Iris L.



 

 


llee08032
Posted: Sunday, August 31, 2014 8:53 AM
Joined: 5/20/2014
Posts: 4408


Iris,

Could you possibly have built up an immunity or tolerance to the Lunesta? Also perhaps the Sundown Syndrome, medications relative to the treatment of and light therapy are worth looking into more thoroughly? 


jfkoc
Posted: Sunday, August 31, 2014 10:16 AM
Joined: 12/4/2011
Posts: 20697


You are certainly on to something(s). Here is something perhaps related:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21139324


Iris L.
Posted: Sunday, August 31, 2014 3:53 PM
Joined: 12/15/2011
Posts: 17888


Thanks for the link to that article, Jfkoc.  It talks about nighttime light affecting sleep in patients more than daytime light.   

 

Ilee, I was on Lunesta for several years, and only recently became tolerant.  That was one of my reasons for weaning myself off it.  My original sleep problem, the delayed sleep phase disorder, resurfaced once I was no longer controlling my bedtime with Lunesta. 

 

I'm taking a different approach now.  I was awake until after 4:30am this morning, and got only 4 hours of sleep.  One of the treatment approaches is the setting a consistent awake time by use of an alarm clock, and exposure to daylight or light box.   

 

So this morning I set the clock for 9am and dragged myself up, even though I was still in dreamland.  I had my morning tea and breakfast and read the Sunday newspaper on my balcony, exposing myself to morning sunlight.  I'm just now checking alzconnected.  I usually get on the computer first thing in the morning, and my desk is in a fairly dark corner of my living room, so I was not getting any morning light before. 

 

In the evening, I'll have to wind down the computer usage because I'm supposed to avoid light for 2-3 hours before bedtime.   

 

As I think about light exposure, I think about how so many patients with dementia spend most of their days inside, away from natural daylight, and watching the television for most of the day and into the evening.  I think more attention needs to be paid to their exposure to daylight, and less light in the evening.  Perhaps the incidence of sundowning would diminish.  The patients would sleep better at night, and function better during the day.

It's worth investigating.
 


Iris L.
 


jfkoc
Posted: Sunday, August 31, 2014 5:01 PM
Joined: 12/4/2011
Posts: 20697


Sorry it was not more useful. I think what you are doing and finding is going to be useful to many of us here!
Iris L.
Posted: Monday, September 1, 2014 12:48 PM
Joined: 12/15/2011
Posts: 17888


I may be reaching a turning point.  Last night I felt drowsy at 11pm, and was about to get to bed, when I had an emergency that I had to take care of.  I was so wound up I couldn't get to sleep until after 1:40am.  Yet I was able to sleep for 7 hours, without getting up, and awoke spontaneously at 8:45am.  I got up and sat outside on my balcony in the sunlight for 30 minutes reading the newspaper and drinking my tea.  I'm feeling rested this morning.  This might work.

Iris L.

jfkoc
Posted: Monday, September 1, 2014 1:27 PM
Joined: 12/4/2011
Posts: 20697


great...
Iris L.
Posted: Tuesday, September 2, 2014 10:47 AM
Joined: 12/15/2011
Posts: 17888


Last night was different.  I fell asleep before midnight, but got only 4 1/2 hours of sleep, because I got up several times, and then was wide awake at 6 am.  My internal clock is still floundering, but I'll keep working on resetting it.

Iris L.

alz+
Posted: Tuesday, September 2, 2014 11:21 AM
Joined: 9/12/2013
Posts: 3608


Iris - I had insomnia or "insomnia" for years before diagnosis and think this is typical and maybe contributing factor.  

  

  

Your posting about sleep disorders has me thinking about lack of oxygen and brain health and lack of REM cycle (I know this is different than the sleep rhythm problem you describe).

  

 

 Maybe a fixable part of dementia decline for some of us?

  

My simple fixes for not falling asleep and staying asleep:

  

  memory foam mattress 

soft radio music or white noise 

melatonin (stopped working for me years ago though but cheap) 

  MM and have Ativan to stop panic about not falling asleep

I am using a salt spray in my nose to open airways and getting those Breathe Right strips. 

  

All do-it-myself attempts to breathe during sleep and stay asleep. If I am extra active during day I sleep in day time too. 

  

really hope you can get deep REM sleep even if in shifts.

  Thanks for bringing this up and exploring sleep. 


Iris L.
Posted: Tuesday, September 2, 2014 2:16 PM
Joined: 12/15/2011
Posts: 17888


Alz+, sleep and memory are both formed in the hypothalamus.  I know there's a connection.  I just have to find it.

Iris L.

Iris L.
Posted: Friday, September 5, 2014 8:12 PM
Joined: 12/15/2011
Posts: 17888


I'm finally doing better at night with my sleep.  I'm getting to bed around midnight, and sleeping about 7 1/2 hours.   

 

The alert part of my brain hasn't caught up to the sleep part. I still feel like my day gets going around 4pm.  I seem to wake up at 4.  Next week, school resumes, and I have a class at 12:45pm, so I'll have to get in the habit of getting up and out earlier than 4pm. 


Iris L. 


Iris L.
Posted: Friday, September 5, 2014 11:25 PM
Joined: 12/15/2011
Posts: 17888


I just came back from doing an experiment.  Since I seemed to be wide awake and alert, I decided to go out.  A friend of mine used to tell me it's better to shop at night because the stores are not crowded.  Where I live the stores stay open late and of course Walmart is open 24 hours a day.  So I started off to Trader Joes' about a mile from me.   

 

I noticed people milling about the streets.  The community has First Fridays, which is like a nighttime street fair.  I couldn't park at TJ's so I cruised the neighborhood, finally found a parking spot on the main street.  I walked to TJ, got my monthly supply of walnuts for the omega-3 fats, and then cruised the street listening to the street musicians, watching the bubble man, the face painting, and the stilt walker.   

 

Some stores were open, including the reptile store, the book store, a toy store, a clothing store, a pastry shop, an ice cream shop, a pizza shop, and the art gallery.  A couple of restaurants with sidewalk seating were open.  I watched a small child perform as part of a children's theater.  Our councilman had a couple of representatives.    

 

I was out for about an hour and a half.  I managed to accomplish a task I had been thinking about for all of the 30 years I have lived in this neighborhood, which was to walk up and down the main street to visit the shops on foot.  I can cross this off my bucket list.

This experiment taught me that I can get out and do things in society.   I don't have a physical cause for not being able to get out.  I'm back home now and I'm not fatigued nor in pain nor stressed out, like I used to be.
 

 

Although many activities were going on, none of this really peaked my interest.  But I'm glad to know I can fit into society when the call arises.  I'm not really intersted in being out at night.  I never cared too much for being out at night. 

 

I feel like I should be doing more, but I have no interest in doing more. 

I don't know if this will change once my sleep becomes more stabilized.  I suppose I have to wait and see.

Iris L. 


BBunny
Posted: Saturday, September 6, 2014 2:06 AM
Joined: 5/28/2014
Posts: 458


Iris, I am an insomniac!  I know I need to sleep more, but I don't.  And it does affect my memory.  I can't sleep, and often, I just don't try.  It's better to sit up with the Kindle, half asleep, than to lay awake staring at the wall!!  I hope you are able to reset your clock. ( This is kinda funny...I just drifted off while typing!)  I have always been most productive in the afternoon, and stayed up late.  Mornings are not my friend.  I hope you not only get more sleep but reap many improvements because of it.         Concerning your research, do you break it  down into small pieces, taking notes?  That's how I do it. Best of luck on the Zzzzzzz.
Myriam
Posted: Saturday, September 6, 2014 7:52 PM
Joined: 12/6/2011
Posts: 3326


I had the weirdest experience today. I was in L.A. for a study and arrived home around 9:30 last night. I fell asleep around 1:30 a.m. When I woke up, as usual, I fixed my breakfast and sat in front of the TV to catch the news on CNN. Then I washed the dishes and checked my messages. There were 7 voice mail messages waiting for me, including a friend who left 5 of them with each of them left with growing concern. I thought that was weird and as I began to listen to the voice mails, that's when I happen to look at my clock at it showed it was 1:30. At first I thought my clock (Grandmother clock) stopped working, but it was ticking. That's when I realized that I awoke at 1:30 in the afternoon! 

 

Hope I can get to sleep tonight. 


alz+
Posted: Friday, September 26, 2014 9:08 PM
Joined: 9/12/2013
Posts: 3608


J Pineal Res. 2005 Apr;38(3):145-52.

The human pineal gland and melatonin in aging and Alzheimer's disease.

Abstract

The pineal gland is a central structure in the circadian system which produces melatonin under the control of the central clock, the suprachiasmatic nucleus (SCN). The SCN and the output of the pineal gland, i.e. melatonin, are synchronized to the 24-hr day by environmental light, received by the retina and transmitted to the SCN via the retinohypothalamic tract. Melatonin not only plays an important role in the regulation of circadian rhythms, but also acts as antioxidant and neuroprotector that may be of importance in aging and Alzheimer's disease (AD). Circadian disorders, such as sleep-wake cycle disturbances, are associated with aging, and even more pronounced in AD. Many studies have reported disrupted melatonin production and rhythms in aging and in AD that, as we showed, are taking place as early as in the very first preclinical AD stages (neuropathological Braak stage I-II). Degeneration of the retina-SCN-pineal axis may underlie these changes. Our recent studies indicate that a dysfunction of the sympathetic regulation of pineal melatonin synthesis by the SCN is responsible for melatonin changes during the early AD stages. Reactivation of the circadian system (retina-SCN-pineal pathway) by means of light therapy and melatonin supplementation, to restore the circadian rhythm and to relieve the clinical circadian disturbances, has shown promising positive results.

PMID:15725334 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]