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Originally posted by: Starling
I'm not sure what you are asking. If the question is if sex stops at some point in the disease, the answer is yes. Frequently when it stops the caregiver is glad it is over because it hasn't been a good thing for quite a while. Sometimes it stops, as it did with you and your wife, because the caregiver realizes that their spouse doesn't really want to do "that" anymore.
It is hard either way. And you are not alone.
If your question is about what to do about one's own needs and desires when this happens, well, that is a tougher question. Age and personal inclinations are part of the answer we come up with.
But the big thing is that you know you are not alone in thinking about this issue, and it is one that doesn't get addressed by anyone except your peers in a place like this one.
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Originally posted by: Sun
So, what is it you are asking?
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Originally posted by: Rkg
Mark, I have seen this subject come up a few different times, Personally I have to say your wonderful for realizing that your DW was struggling with intimacy. Thank You for respecting that.
I don't know which is worse, having them forget about sex or wanting sex (eeeek!) cause let's just say, AD/Sex/medications don't mix! Thankfully my Dh is wanting less and less! Whew, cause frankly it's not appealing. Hasn't been satisfying in a few years, so I personally would rather not. It's not to say I don't desire a healthy sexual relationship, I do. And hope to experience a healthy sexual relationship again before I hit the menopause years, where I hear  some could care less!
I know that some have stepped out of their marriages when their partner develops AD and that is truly up to the person. Personally I would not hold it against anyone. As for me, Hell I barely have time to get to the grocery store much less meet someone for a encounter! LOL.............
I hope I have figured out what you were asking and not just assuming.
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Joined: 1/14/2015
Posts: 40463
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Originally posted by: Mark Michael
It came up in another thread... well... OK... "I" brought it up in another thread. I am a young lad of 56, in good shape and healthy. I drink moderately I don't smoke (never did) and I am, Shall we say... "Male".
My wife and I had a very active and fulfilling sex life. For about two years now I have been celibate. My wife was a very old-fashioned girl. We did not sleep together before we were married, her choice not mine. But she was ever so worth waiting for and it was a privilege to honor her wishes. About two years ago after an "encounter" she looked at me with a very strange expression on her face and said "Can we agree that no one needs to know about this". I realized in that instant that she was no longer aware that I was her husband and that she felt like she was doing something that she should be ashamed of. I haven't touched her in that way since and my heart broke even more in that moment. I loved everything about my wife. She was sweet and kind and gentle and sexy and I miss her.
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Originally posted by: Rkg
I am assuming by the topic subject he was asking
Intimacy Or Not
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Originally posted by: Mark Michael
Hi everyone... I wasn't really asking a question, though I can see how it would seem so. I will be more careful with thread titles in the future. That kind of intimacy was a big part of our marriage and the loss of it added a level of hell to the last two years. I was venting. I am glad that at least one Man responded. Thank you Larry. Please ladies don't be offended but this is an issue that has two distinct points of view and while I appreciate that you have yours and I understand it intellectually I don't pretend to comprehend it viscerally. I guess I just feel very alone in that special way that I thought would come much later in my life. I mourn the loss of intimacy and I mourn the loss of my best friend.
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Originally posted by: folly
Perhaps Mark isn't "asking" anything, but simply commenting on another loss caused by AD.
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Originally posted by: meeko11
My feeling is the more information we have the better we can survive.
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Originally posted by: LarryD
Like Mark, our married life has changed. My definition of intimacy has changed as well. It involves times of holding hands, or just lying side by side in the mornings, sometimes with a puzzled look on her face until she wakes up enough to remember that I am that man who is always there. Many times through the day we tell each other we love each other even though the full meaning may not be there for her and we still kiss after a fashion several times a day. Some of it is out of commitment but most of it is out of a deeper love that hes grown out of this new relationship.
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Originally posted by: SnowyLynne
No one should be offended It's a good question......
I have dementia & I do not want sex period.I also have severe COPD & it hampers my breathing so we don't! Hubby is ok with it as he is 64 I'm 70.I know many at that age have healthy sex lives we don't......Whatever floats your boat......
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Originally posted by: JAB
I imagine there are many more points of view than just two, and I doubt that they're divided by gender. I think they're more likely to be divided by the nature of the relationship prior to AD, and by the ways in which the AD (and meds) are affecting the afflicted spouse. A wife who has had a rich and fulfilling sex life will miss sharing the intimacy she used to have with her healthy husband ... even one who has already gone into menopause. (Honest, Rkg! ) My husband was a very generous and considerate lover, and physically expressing our love for each other has always been part of our marriage. The Parkinson's on top of the AD has changed the ways in which we are able to share intimacy. I am blessed in that my husband still knows exactly who I am and what our relationship has been, still knows the full meaning of telling each other we love each other, still understands kisses, a gentle caress on the cheek. Like Larry and his wife, there is a new dimension to our love. But of course I miss what was, and wish with all my heart things could be different.
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Originally posted by: Melitta
I really appreciate all the honesty and wisdom in this thread. So glad we have this forum. I can't help but wonder (and maybe chuckle at) how the adult children may feel when they see this, as I read somewhere that whenever we think of our parents having sex, we revert to a 10 year old mentally.
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Originally posted by: Linda G2
Mark Michael, I want to thank you for sharing here. There are many of us, male and female who miss the sexual part of our marriages. One of the last times my hubby and I tried to have sex, he said to me, 'let's see if I remember how to do this'. That was what seems like a long time ago and this is in a group of many things I miss about my marriage.
I often feel that I am more caregiver than wife and that my hubby is now my adorable child. He has so many little things that are childlike and absolutely no desire for physical closeness except for some hugs and a few pecks, not really kisses as they used to be.
Since I am not a guy I don't know how you deal with your own needs, but I know I do a lot of avoiding stuff that would be remind me of what I am missing. I am blessed in that we have a deep love for each other that seems to surpass the physical dimension of "us".
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Originally posted by: Rkg
quote: Originally posted by JAB: even one who has already gone into menopause. (Honest, Rkg! )
Jab, I am not trying to say that women who have been thru menopause don't miss the intimacy, just that menopause can mess with the desire for some.
Mark, I don't think most caregivers would be offended by your post. But I guess I don't understand your thought that because your a man your loss is different than a women caregiver?
And yes unfortunately many didn't expect this loss of intimacy to hit us at our ages, Believe me when I say I never thought that in my 40's I would be going thru any of this. But I am just as many others are. I would think that caregivers despite their age or gender would have many of the same feelings as well if they had a close healthy sexual relationship. The loss of someone wanting, needing and desiring you isn't a gender issue it's something that most of us need.
I am not trying to make your loss less than mine or anyone else's but just trying to understand.
Melitta, I am not sure how kids would view this topic  . Most likely kids whether their adults or not, just as friends and family don't understand that yes with AD there is intimacy loss as well as all the other losses.
There would always be that, but that's my Dad or that's my Mom thinking. So I agree they would probably revert! If I remember correctly in a post about this topic on another forum, there was some children that had told their non AD parent to move on in the "sexual relationship dept", cause the AD parent was living in AD world and had been for many years. I thought that was a very mature thing for them to do.
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Originally posted by: Pam W.
Mark Michael Your words make me sad for both of you. That precious gem that you married is still there somewhere under all the madness, hold on to the hope that one day will be an exceptionally good day for her and you will find intimacy like you once knew. At some point in this disease we can only hope and cherish the memories.
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Originally posted by: Linda G2
Wow, Mark, in thinking about this post it must have been quite disconcerting to have your wife not know it was you that she was being intimate with. How terribly sad. We stopped the sex stuff before Frank started not remembering me. Just wanted to acknowledge your feelings. quote: Originally posted by Mark Michael:
It came up in another thread... well... OK... "I" brought it up in another thread. I am a young lad of 56, in good shape and healthy. I drink moderately I don't smoke (never did) and I am, Shall we say... "Male".
My wife and I had a very active and fulfilling sex life. For about two years now I have been celibate. My wife was a very old-fashioned girl. We did not sleep together before we were married, her choice not mine. But she was ever so worth waiting for and it was a privilege to honor her wishes. About two years ago after an "encounter" she looked at me with a very strange expression on her face and said "Can we agree that no one needs to know about this". I realized in that instant that she was no longer aware that I was her husband and that she felt like she was doing something that she should be ashamed of. I haven't touched her in that way since and my heart broke even more in that moment. I loved everything about my wife. She was sweet and kind and gentle and sexy and I miss her.
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Originally posted by: Rkg
quote: Originally posted by Cathy J. M.:
Maybe the adult children will read this thread and realize that there's no time like the present -- go make love while you can!
LOL.................
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Originally posted by: Melitta
Well,I must thank the hall monitor for providing the links. Golly, gee they were talking about Dr. Ruth and vibrators over a year ago! And, many had their pictures on their posts.
Thanks for making me think, y'all.
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Originally posted by: Cathy J. M.
Maybe the adult children will read this thread and realize that there's no time like the present -- go make love while you can!
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Originally posted by: JAB
quote: I can't help but wonder (and maybe chuckle at) how the adult children may feel when they see this, as I read somewhere that whenever we think of our parents having sex, we revert to a 10 year old mentally.
From the posts I've read on the Caregiver forum, many of the adult children don't realize that an AD patient can have sexual desires well into the progression of the disease, and can very much need someone to love -- romantic love -- whether or not the sexual apparatus is functioning properly. When an AD parent begins to develop a romantic attachment to someone in a NH or even adult day care, they act like it's unnatural, disgusting, and, sadly, something to be nipped in the bud by whatever means necessary.
Like everything else about this disease, what is true for one ADLO may be totally different for another. Some develop hypersexuality, which can be extremely difficult for the healthy spouse to deal with. We've had several members post, pleading for advice on what can be done.
Rkg, there's no physical reason for menopause to kill desire. You just need to keep the body healthy. Well, and keep your attitude healthy, too.
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Originally posted by: Starling
Melitta, as one of the people who had her picture on her post all I can do is giggle at your reaction.
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Originally posted by: Mark Michael
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Linda G2:
Wow, Mark, in thinking about this post it must have been quite disconcerting to have your wife not know it was you that she was being intimate with. How terribly sad. We stopped the sex stuff before Frank started not remembering me. Just wanted to acknowledge your feelings. [QUOTE]
It was a difficult moment. It is just semantics but I am sure that she knew me... she just forgot we were married. There were so many forgotten things before that but we had a standing joke. She would make some comment about forgetting things and be concerned and I would take her in my arms and say "Who am I?" She would say "My husband." I would smile and kiss her and say "As long as you can remember that the rest is just details." So... the day she forgot that broke my heart.
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Originally posted by: skericheri
Mark---You don't sound as if you are a bully... or...that you took advantage of the situation. I suspect that what you engaged in was intimacy between 2 consenting adults (one of which was challenged enough to forget they were already married). Instead of focusing on what your wife forgot...Focus on the fact that she loved you enough to put aside what I think was her religious training.
If she is inclined to do so again in the future ...and...you do not find the thought repugnant.......
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Originally posted by: Jim Broede
Oh, there are so many, many ways to be intimate. Endless ways. One never needs to lose intimacy. Only a certain kind of intimacy. --Jim
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Originally posted by: Melitta
Starling~It was so much fun, I felt like I was at a grown up slumber party reading it!
Really, all of these spouse posts are so valuable to me, as I am struggling with many similar issues, and now I feel less alone.
Thanks!
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Originally posted by: Jim Broede
You are a good and loving care-giver. And that's exactly what Sharon needs. She's in good hands. --Jim
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Originally posted by: folly
Mark, considered yourself indulged. You're entitled. Of course you miss it. Why wouldn't you?
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Originally posted by: Snorky
I hope that you don't take this subject off as it is just as natural as as any other part of the body and I just had a discussion with my DH this morning about it. I went to some of the sites you suggested and they are exactly what I am feeling. It was good to know that there are other people who have experienced the "all about me" feeling that I think he feels. He's all the sudden proud of himself for being able to "perform" but worried he will get me pregnant(impossible for 30 some years!) I wish it were truly a feeling of love but I don't see it that way. Plus he makes off color remarks which make it even worse. It's very hard to see this as I would love to have a nice "relationship", but I know it isn't meaningful anymore as far as sex goes. It's all about him. Thanks for the sites that you sent.
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Originally posted by: Starling
Mark, you are ALLOWED to feel the lose of any part of your connection with your LO. And the one you are missing is specific to being a Spousal Caregiver.
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Originally posted by: Mark Michael
Thank you again for all of the thoughts and insights. Of Course I know that there are many other ways to be intimate... and I take every opportunity to be as close emotionally and spiritually to Sharon as I can. I just have these episodes when I am extremely human and I feel sorry for myself for the one big piece of the puzzle that is missing... the one very large very special connection that I will never have with Sharon again. Indulge me.
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Originally posted by: Cathy J. M.
quote: Originally posted by Starling:
Mark, you are ALLOWED to feel the lose of any part of your connection with your LO. And the one you are missing is specific to being a Spousal Caregiver.
Exactly! And sometimes it's very much missed. I haven't given up hope entirely, though....
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Originally posted by: Upper Lad
Thanks for your candor, Mark Michael.
As a relatively new member to this forum, I appreciate open and frank discussions of topics that people don't normally discuss in open forums (at least the ones with which I am familiar). My spouse and I have not had sexual relations for more than 8 years due to physical issues but there is an 18 year difference in our ages so it was something that both of us knew would come to an end and we accepted it. We still had a very passionate, loving relationship, kissing, hugging, holding hands frequently. Since last year, however, my spouse hasn't recognized me as her spouse of 40 years - only different personages at different times of the day. It's difficult realizing and accepting that my spouse no longer recognizes me and believes that I left without notification. I gratefully accept everything that my spouse is capable of giving. When I originally joined the spouse-partner caregiver forum, I described our situation. I don't expect that my spouse will ever realize who I am in the real world but in her world, I'm the person/persons always here.
Mark Michael - Your case is much more difficult than mine. I would suggest that you consider seeking guidance from your family practioner. Given your wife's current thought processing, it appears as if some professional guidance would be the best (you may have already gone through this effort).
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