ok i am not computer savvy LOL so give up on posting pics . Ive started a new thread so that I can post, vents, etc on my daily struggle to try and co-habitate with FIL which as each day passes seems to be an impossible feat.  I appreciate everyone that has helped with advise and support. 

Today is Saturday, I volunteered for extra floor time so will be gone 10-2. My hubby will have to be here ( no aide on weekends) with his father.  I've been up since 5;30 just for some peace until i have to get ready to go.  

Some interesting tidbits i did not post on old thread.  Hubby had to go personally to a bank and request info and close acct that sister had opened when she took FIL.  Not sure if anything is "illegal" but hubby is pitching a fit .

During the court proceedings, she was not very forthcoming in her release of financial situation, although we were forced to produce receipts/bank statements etc from our 7 yrs taking care of inlaws.

 she told hubby that FIL had no bank account..False, he did with her being POA (although her POA was deemed null & Void as of June 18, 2014) She had continued to write checks or make online pays after this date, even though she was not POA anymore. 

she has, according to the printed statements made  transfers from FIL account to her personal checking acct for $1000.00, on several occasions.

As settlement to get FIL back, court dismissed her demands for almost $20,000 re-imbursement for things like $4000 in clothes, $2200 for pay to a relative that had to come and help her drive down to her home wth FIL, $3000 for medical expenses for FIL, and she even claimed $2600 for reimbursement on my MIL funeral. She also claimed $6800 for FIL legal expenses ( which is insane since he did not hire these lawyers , she did!

After all these bogus claims were filed, judge threw them out as disallowed, his  verdict was that the court would NOT reimburse her these expenses as what she did might not fall under  illegal as far as taking FIL, but highly unethical and not of high morals, AND the court does not approve of the actions and the way the situation was handled and therefore we would not pay her for her own "stupid actions".

We did agree to settle and pay FIL legal expenses and she immediately terminated her position to get guardianship as her lawyer would not or could not prove all these claims of her money spent.

Now we have proof that she made a check out to a relative for transport of  FIL to her home in another state in the amount of $1100 ( not $2200 as she earlier claimed in court) out of FIL checking acct even after the court dismissed this as an allowable expense.

There were NO medical bills as FIL has medicare and she got him Medicaid down there. ( there were 2 checks written for $15 and change to a facility for 2 days Dec 24 & Dec 25 for respite care)  I guess this is what medicaid didnt cover(?)

There was a check made to the funeral home for $2400. This was NOT out of FIL funds, this was from the life insurance policy my MIL had. and the check went to FIL. We paid the rest of $2100.  $600 is still unaccounted for from MIL death benefit.

There are several large payments to my FIL Credit card that she paid from his checking acct in  the amounts of  $643, $152, and $449..WTH was she buying with HIS  Credit card???

There is also a $1300 payment to "her lawyer", well the lawyer that supposedly was representing FIL but was also representing her in this guardianship petition.  When this was pointed out to be a conflict of interest on the part of her attorney, the attorney advised the biddy she couldnt represent her anymore as far as petitioning guardianship ( about same time old buddy dropped petition)

WHY???  We settled and agreed to pay all attorney fees, yet she still paid this attorney out of FIL checking acct???

We were unaware of the fact that FIl could get benefits from MIL old pension, so for 8 months he was getting the additional $166 a month added to his checking acct. She did collect June, July and we are now trying to get that stopped as of August and have her re-pay 1/2 of June and all of July to my FIL .

We havent had time to go thru all 8 months of bank statements. But for now we have filed a complaint against the 1st lawyer that went to the NH with the old biddy and got FIL to sign new POA's and assisted old biddy in getting him out of the state. Hubby plans to pursue this action and at least try to  recover the legal expenses he incurred (almost $22000 AND the $6800 he paid for FIL legal expenses) 

Yesterday was my Bday, nothing planned as I knew we had no sitter for FIL. Got tired of sitting around house, so decided to go stroll thru goodwill store and Walmart.  Driving thru town I drove by 2 different apt complexes that are low income or adjust rent to your income sort of thing. Thoughts of moving out, alone with no furniture,starting over etc flooded my brain BUT I would have some peace and quiet.  Wrote down phone # and will call today .

My youngest son called and asked me out to lunch when his GF got out of work. I wasnt in a cheery mood, i was downright depressed and I dont know what else , just feeling crappy about the whole situation. But I accepted and joined them at a local cafe sorta thing around 4pm. It was nice. Miss seeing him.

As i am leaving hubby texts and asks if I am still at walmart. He knows I can hang out and look at stuff for hours. I ask , why?  Well since its your Bday, pick up some chicken from the deli and some salads while you are there..

Hmmm OK its almost 6;30 by the time I get back to walmart.  Deli is closing down, so no fired chicken , only that rotaissaire kind. Call husband, no fried chicken left blah blah...ohhh dad doesnt like the rotaissaire kind. Are you sure there is no fried chicken? OMG OK i lost it, I said hold on Ill send you a text pic of the entire area so you can see there is NO FRIED CHICKEN!!!   Finally he says well get that kind, he will just have to eat it..Yea you think??

I finish looking around and got dog food and soda, then felt bad that it was getting late so i took off to get dinner home. NOTHING has been done while i was gone. Hubby was supposed to be working on finishing the master bath so we have our own place to shower etc instead of having to use the big bathroom downstairs. Im getting the croceries down from car, FIL assumes his position at dining table, ready to be served.  I took 2 bags out of car and thats it..hubby asks if there are any more, I say Yes, but you and your father could help get them down? Hubby went, FIL didnt move.

Hubby served FIL his plate, I got a bit of the chicken and off I went to the living room for 15 minutes of TV.  

They finish their dinner and here they come. FIL of course doesnt like what I am watching, so here he goes, getting up every 10 minutes from sofa, wandering into the kitchen, wandering out to smoke on the porch. I do not get up to watch him, so hubby has to get up after him..nice quiet evening..(insert sarcasm here)  This continues till almost 9pm. Then FIL decides to go to bed.

FIL now has decided he takes his shoes off in the living room and goes outside or wanders all over house with socks only. Considering we live out of town a bit, we have animals in the yard, so animal poop and my dog..poop gets dragged in on floor and of course socks are dirty and stained.  Doesnt bother hubby. His reply when I say something "well, so , now he wants to walk in socks". OK. 

Then he comes uo with "ive been thinking, that it may be a good idea to talk to the aide and not force the bath issue since that causes Dad to start fighting and arguing every single time she is here"  What??? Im like are you kidding me? No one physically drags him into the shower BUT if he is left to his own devices he will not change clothes or take a bath for weeks and honestly I can't stand the smell!!  Hubby now has it in his head that it may be "illegal" to force him to take a bath. Have no idea where he got that, but I told him you cant just let him do what he wants especially his hygiene..UGH. So aide comes today 10-4 we shall see . Of course this will hopefully eliminate some arguing, but Im sure FIL will argue over, lunch, going and staying downstairs while aide is here etc. 

I just dont get it. Im sure hubby is hoping for some quiet time but giving in to his father over bathing is not going to do any good..

I asked if he was going to go to work today, and didnt get an answer. Nothing gets done, its so much easier to sit and watch TV, get up for 30 minutes and measure flooring, then sit down again. UGH

I haven't read your earlier posts, but it sounds like your husband is having a hard time adjusting to your FIL condition. 

I have a hard time forcing my mother to do things she doesn't want to either but she will still bathe every 2 or 3 days without an argument.

We have the opposite situation...it is my mother living with us.

I hope things get better for you.  Sounds like your FIL has been taken advantage of.

IP, 

The posted photo worked.  Yuck, btw.

The sister paying the relative out of FIL's  money AFTER the court ruling against that is contempt of court.  She would get a bench trial before the judge who ruled against her before and likely jail time.  She would have to pay the money back as well.

In regards to your birthday, I'm so sorry about the way your husband behaved.  He made no effort for you whatsoever and I'm wondering how you feel about that?  

I realize you two don't have a lot of money (and I'm not sure how you and your husband paid out $22,000 + $6,800 in attorney fees to get FIL back) but, your husband could have done something to celebrate your birthday.   There are many things he could have done such as cooking dinner for all of you or even giving you a homemade "coupon book" with coupons for a free massage, him cooking dinner, etc. It really CAN cost nothing to be thoughtful.   I'm glad you spent time with your son that day and out of the house.  The FIL is a problem, but you husband is the main problem here. 

My main advice to you would be to get yourself financially independent.   Find a second job that has a dependable income to supplement the commission job or just change to a job that has an hourly wage until you can save up enough money to get out of this situation.  

The Social Worker was just here for a follow-up and we qualify for 5 days respite care which will expire Sept 30. So we need to use it or lose it.

Its at a local facility 10 minutes from our home.  BUT hubby is pissed off , I think we need it for FIL to go to facility for those 5 days.  Hubby does not agree . Since we can apparently use the hours either respite outside of home or have some one come here and break down the total hours.  He wants to break down the hours and have someone come in to compliment/extend the same days as the aide but stay till like 7pm ( covering 3 hours after aide leaves Mon, Wed,  Fridays) 

Thats not going to cut it..thats not respite since we will be dealing with the same nonsense when the  respite aide is here. Hubby doesnt see it that way. He says he can go and get some work done..Really>>>he doesnt do squat now , whats the 3 hrs going to add???  And once the respite worker leaves at 7, I will still have to deal with FIL dinner, cleaning up, getting up every 5 minutes from sofa so someone has to be looking after him till he finally decides he is ready for bed

In my opinion RESPITE is to get away from the situation and do things for yourself..not just 3 hours , 3 days a week..and still deal with the issues.

UGH

I'm so sorry hubby doesn't agree with you.  I am the child, not the in-law so I know how hard it is to send them away.  Right now my mother can still understand I would be sending her away so I don't think I could do it; but if she was as advanced as your FIL I think I might be able to.

I have thought about trying to talk my mother into going to visit with her brother who lives about 3 hours away for a few days to give me some rest.  But I don't think he really believes she has dementia and I'm not sure if he will watch her closely enough.

I hope that your DH begins to accept that he needs more rest and that you do too soon. 

You and  not your husband or FIL decides what you are going to do or not do. I know it is hard to break old habits but you can. You do not have to come home until FIL is in bed and you can tell your husband to use the hours however he sees fit because it no longer concerns you. 

An old but wise saying....keep on doing what you are doing and you will keep on getting the same results. You can get off the field with your husband.  Just turn in your uniform!!!

Just seconding what jfkoc said above:  if you can't physically go somewhere else right now (no friend you could bunk with temporarily?  What about your son?) then I think you need to start living separately at home:  you get YOUR meals, you hide in YOUR room, all else is husband's responsibility because he is being extremely unfair to you.  Every time I read about your situation, I get very p*ssed off on your behalf.  He has no right to commit YOU to this incredibily difficult task of caregiving HIS father.

I hope I've not offended you saying this; I'm just so GRRRRRR on your behalf.

I'm at wits end. I understand what needs to be done, its hard as far as me packing up my personal stuff and finding a cheap place. But I am getting to realize that it is the only solution where I am going to be able to get some peace, emotionally & physically.

If i stay here, no way I am going to be left alone. Knowing I am in the house, I will be dragged into whatever situation is happening at the moment. 

I stay out as long as possible as it is now. I stay in office way past closing some nights, I do extra time on my supposed days off, and I go in early most days when I am  on floor duty. Geez I know it isnt supposed to be this way. me having to stay away from my own home UGH. It sucks!!  I am 56 and never thought this is what I would be doing..

No, I have no friends here that I could hang out with, and my oldest son lives an hour away , so 1 1/2 hr away from my job. He has 2 kids and a small 2 BR apt. My youngest lives next county over, lives with GF and has PT custody of his 3 yr old. They live in a 1 BR.

The only option I see is trying to get into one of the low income housing apts in the area. Ive got some phone ## but hubby has been here all day and is in and out of the back room using the computer so I cant call and get info. Will try and call tomm from work

It is Tuesday afternoon and all three of you are in the house??? Why can't you make your phone calls? Go ahead and tell him what  you are doing.

I know this is drastic but have you thought of filing for legal separation? Maybe he and FIL would have to leave.

It was certainly an  out of the box thought. Next time have social services call you cell with a 30 minute lead. 

Did anything good come from the visit? 

IP: I can't imagine what your life must be like. After reading and re-reading all of your posts, I can't help but notice something. And I hope this doesn't hurt your feelings, but might give you something to think about.

Your FIL appears to be an in-your-face control freak. And perhaps has something other than dementia going on, mentally.

On the other hand, it seems, to me, that your hubby is a passive-agressive control freak. From reading, it appears he is just as controlling as his father, but in a different way.

I'm concerned about YOU! You can't "fix" your FIL, and probably can't "fix" your hubby either, unless you both get some good counseling. The entire situation is very unhealthy for you, and the constant stress will eventually take a real toll on both your physical and mental health. 

If you have health insurance, and it offers  a mental health benefit, I would see a counselor if I were you. If for no other reason than to talk this over with someone who may be able to help you and steer you in the right direction to take care of YOURSELF, and leave the "boys" to their own means.

Happy Belated Birthday,

Sorry the actual day sucked.  When your listings do actually close, maybe you could take a tiny bit of the proceeds and treat yourself to something special.  A mini spa day or even a mani -pedi.  Something OUT of the house that will help you relax and treat yourself.  You do deserve it and if others don't get it together you need to take care of yourself. 

YIKES.  Get that respite care.

This is not the same situation but years ago my husbands troubled granddaughter moved in with us.  After a time she really turned on me, not liking having rules and bounderies set down by me etc.  My husband was reacting in one way and me in another and I remember breaking down thinking I would have to leave(exactly what the girl wanted).  I finally got inspired and sat my hubby down for a talk.  I used the old cliche about one stick being weak, but two being strong when they are bound together.  We had to act as a team.  That didnt mean it was always the way I decided and it didn't mean it was always the way he decided. but whatever we did in regards to her we did together in spirit.  It made a huge difference.  I don't know if it will help but if you could talk to your husband about being united together , get him to understand it will be for his benefit.  Has he never heard Happy Wife, Happy Life?? 

Yep; Not my problem, My new motto"

And i am biting my tongue till I can get a place. I have calls in to 2 places, waiting on management to call and see what their guidelines etc are.

This morning I was up as usual at 6am.  Its now 9am and i just told hubby to get up and out of bed as his DF is up and about. I made my breakfast and came into the back room to work on puter. 

Hubby got his coffee and came in here too, looking at his "stocks activity". I refuse to get up and keep an eye on FIL. Not my job to get his pills or get his breakfast. Aide comes today 10-4. Hubby said he is going to leave as soon as she gets here and go to work . I will be dressed and ready to leave when she gets here too. I WILL NOT interfere and try to settle the arguing/battle when she asks him to go downstairs like he is supposed to, and take a shower/change clothes.  And she will be instructed to NOT call me if FIL starts acting up, she will call his son or 911 if it becomes that bad.  MY phone is now on the DO NOT CALL registry as far as she is concerned.

I have a client meeting at 11am, and then will figure something out after that to do, either go to office and do paperwork or something.

I am busting a gut to get these contracts closed. Hopefully catch up on my bills, either move into an apt ( if I can find one)  or I will use $$$ to take a trip to visit family & friends in Fl for 2 weeks  Hubby can tag along BUT not FIL. He can go to respite for 2 weeks as far as I am concerned.

Illinois, I know this must be hard, but I really believe you are doing exactly what you need to--not only for your personal well-being, but ultimately for your husband's, your marriage's, and your FIL's.  when you previously always jumped in to save the day, DH could keep pushing those hard questions away.  Now he really has to consider them.

Hang in there!

Your husband needs to learn more about dementia. They cannot rationalize and reason out something like "if I behave myself I will be treated better than if act like a horse's behind". Even if they agreed with the idea, they also cannot remember their choice and then make decisions to behave. This is really why many with dementia misbehave - they act only out of gut feelings and emotions, with no sense of reason to tell them that sensible people just don't act that way. Some behaviors in dementia are easy to see, but the fact that their ability to reason things out is broken is much tougher to see.

My wife was hesitant about putting her dad in an AL facility but when he started to pee in the trash can in his room and do other unacceptable behaviors she came around to the idea quickly!

Truth is that this is a progressive disease with no cure. Your FIL will continue to get worse and worse. Unless you and your husband are willing and financially able to quit your jobs and focus on his care full time 24/7/365, he will eventually need to be in a care facility. The question then becomes how bad he will be before your husband is willing to check him in.

I will tell you that being in an AL facility has been a wonderful experience for my FIL. We shopped around and found one that my wife and I both agreed was a nice place. My FIL has made friends and thinks the AL facility is a great place. My wife is now really glad we did it, so its worked well for everyone. It doesn't have to be a disaster - moving into a nice AL facility can be a very good thing for everyone. Your husband needs to see and realize that.

You are doing so well. It is hard for all of us but finally we do reach the point of not saying what to do. Things go better. 

It is possible that your FIL feels no control over his life and what is happening to him. At this point approach becomes very important. If you have time watch some of Teppa Snow online. She has helped me a lot.

And so Saturday begins.  I have to go with Hubby to get pics of the houses to put on market.  I figured what the heck, let me give this a go.

Go to FIL and point blank " Get up, go shower, shave an change clothes"  I walk away.  10 minutes later, same thing. He gets up, gives me a dirty look and is ready to start his tiraid.  I stop him dead in his tracks.

this is conversation that followed "  NO, close your mouth, No negotiations. Go down stairs, shower and shave!  I stand there, dirty looks and all. He proceeds to the kitchen and complains to husband. I guess hubby saw my face and said "I dont want to hear it Dad, do what she told you"

off he goes to the bath. I follow, just to prove a point to hubby .  Hubby follows.  I plop out clean clothes, hand FIL washcloth with body wash, turn on shower and stand outside shower stall ( curtain is closed for privacy)  I tell FIL wash your hair AND your privates!

Peek in and he is standing under the shower. No foam. Again repeat..WASH YOUR PRIVATES!! I want to see foam...

What he does next is killing me,  very pissed off but also amused at how this "severely senile guy" gets his revenge on me LOL.

Out he comes from the shower  and i knock, "are you decent, do u have underwear on?  YES , come on in...so I go in,  give him deodorant and tell him to apply.  then I look in the tub!!!!!   And he starts laughing, he had a bowel movement in the tub!!!!!!!  Big turds floating everywhere, tub is backed up half way full...I look at him and say what the hell???  He continues to laugh and says, see this is what you get  for telling me what to do.  There you got alot of foam! 

I yell to hubby to come back downstairs with clorox and gloves and showed him. Hubby is gagging, I say clean the turds out, then pour clorox all over and down the drain..I leave.  Hubby looks like i've asked him to eat the stuff!!  but away I go upstairs. 

Hubby is trying to rationalize and say oh maybe he is incontinent..NOOOO he is NOT incontinent..he clearly laughed and told me he S*** in the tub cuz he was pissed at me for telling him he had to shower and shave..his underwear is clean, so clearly he had control and did it on purpose..

So before people start with "oh he doesnt know" poor guy etc..this is NOT dementia, he planned this and crapped in there on purpose, as he admitted to me and laughing..he is very manipulative..and is not so demented that he can think this little joke through and follow through with it..

Oh well, Now I am definitely pushing hubby to finish our bathroom upstairs..EEEWWWW

I do not agree that  your FIL is manipulative....he is downright openly pushing at you and on top of it had cognitive problems.  Everytime you push him he pushs back. Everytime the same result.

My question is why doesn't you husband take on shower duty?

Point of clarification...he lives in the basement where he has a shower?

The medical term for this behavior is voluntary encorpresis or scatolia (when the patient smears the feces on purpose.)  If this behavior is being caused by dementia, it is almost always a symptom of constipation.  Constipation can become so extreme that the person who is doing this doesn't know when he will need to poop.  He doesn't get physical signals. This may be what is going on with your FIL - especially considering how he eats - no veggies, no fruit, no grains.  Would you be surprised to learn that he is constipated?  Nowadays, there are gummy fiber "candies" that you can buy at the drugstore to try to help with this.  I don't think your FIL will know that these are not really candy.

http://allnurses.com/geriatric-nurses-ltc/coprophagia-scatolia-demented-768081.html

There are other illnesses that voluntary encorpresis is associated with including oppositional defiant disorder, autism, mental retardation, and even schizophrenia. I think that this is something that your husband needs to contact his father's doctor about as soon as possible.  

For many families, this type of fecal incontinence leads to placement.  Perhaps, now that you are making your husband do the clean up, your husband may start to think he would rather his father be placed than having to clean up poo himself on a daily basis.