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CarMax won’t recognize guardianship
TCL1990
Posted: Thursday, February 8, 2018 6:29 PM
Joined: 10/17/2017
Posts: 49


I have already sold one of my parent’s vehicles to CarMax and have been trying to sell the other, but I have been dealing with a very unhelpful and insensitive employee.  Both of my parents are incapicated and in a nursing home.  My mother has Alzheimer’s and my father has vascular dementia and currently in hospice. Because of this, They have been declared incapicated and I have been awarded guardianship by the courts. During the first sale, CarMax employees insisted on taking one of my original POAs signed by my parents before they were incapicated.  Now, to sell the second vehicle, they want another.  I don’t have another and nor can my parents sign another as they have been legally declared incapacitated.  However, I do have guardianship documentation.I tried to explain the tenets of this to the employee. Instead of listening, she simply tried to make me feel stupid and small.  Having two parents completely incapicated with dementias is hard enough. And expensive.  The money from the sales of their vehicles goes directly to pay for their care. I wish this employee would actually listen and try to work through the process with me. Instead, she was dismissive of my situation.  Very bad show, CarMax.
kellly
Posted: Thursday, February 8, 2018 6:56 PM
Joined: 6/12/2015
Posts: 1133


Go above her head. She must have a boss. Go to the boss. Threaten to have all Alz caregivers boycott CarMax. Can you sell the car elsewhere and not use CarMax?

Karma will get her. When she's about triple the age she is right now, she will be dealing with someone with dementia, either a family member, husband or even herself. You might want to let her know that before you walk out the door and take the vehicle someplace else. Tell her a little lesson in compassion and empathy will serve her well throughout the rest of her life. People who think they know it all have a much harder time through life than people who are open to listening and learning.


gubblebumm
Posted: Thursday, February 8, 2018 6:56 PM
Joined: 7/12/2017
Posts: 732


Call, ask for a supervisor and don't even talk to anyone else.  Before conversation get full name, extention, department.  Tell them you INSIST on a manager. Period.  And never ever give them an original to keep.  Ever.  I learned that lesson quick.  Oh and if they have a facebook page, post there and on yelp, and twitter, they hate that.  I have done that and I have heard back in like an hour.  From a boss person

 


TCL1990
Posted: Thursday, February 8, 2018 7:08 PM
Joined: 10/17/2017
Posts: 49


Thanks, guys.  That’s what I’ve been doing just now.  Customer Serive website, Facebook message.  Twitter is next. I hate when people don’t listen or try to understand. As we all know, the challenges of being caregivers are stressful enough without the insensitivity of others.
Leeanna
Posted: Thursday, February 8, 2018 8:29 PM
Joined: 10/7/2017
Posts: 53


Just a thought...could you devote the time to sell it yourself? We received 2 thousand more than what CarMax would give us.
TCL1990
Posted: Thursday, February 8, 2018 8:39 PM
Joined: 10/17/2017
Posts: 49


I could but I’m not comfortable dealing with strangers on my own with such a large transaction. That’s why CarMax was so appealing. .
Leeanna
Posted: Thursday, February 8, 2018 9:07 PM
Joined: 10/7/2017
Posts: 53


I totally get it. Best of luck to you through this process. It’s so true, as if things aren’t hard enough.
Taking A Deep Breath
Posted: Thursday, February 8, 2018 9:29 PM
Joined: 7/2/2013
Posts: 510


You should be able to get a certified copy of the forms.  They would still have the raised notary seal.  Get several copies to have on hand.  Also, go to a different carmax.
Victoria2020
Posted: Friday, February 9, 2018 1:31 AM
Joined: 9/21/2017
Posts: 151


Not a lawyer, but found this-- from Nevada ---but other states may require the same court approval--

 http://www.familylawselfhelpcenter.org/self-help/guardianship/for-the-guardian-getting-additional-court-orders/192-property

And this from Minnesota

http://www.spencelegalservices.com/2010/11/can-a-guardian-sell-or-dispose-of-wards-personal-property/

 

Suggest you check your state's rules. And discuss with your lawyer--maybe you have a durable power of attorney to avoid using the guardianship documents if they require a court order ? The lawyer can advise you on how to proceed.

 

Sure not going to defend any car dealer but they do need to have the right paperwork to be able to pass clear title. If a guardianship requires a specific court order, then they need to have it. 

And you need clear title passed to get your parents off the hook for any accidents those cars maybe in later.


harshedbuzz
Posted: Friday, February 9, 2018 4:52 AM
Joined: 3/6/2017
Posts: 841


I had good luck with www.webuyanycar.com

Super easy process and they gave me twice what the local dealer would. Where I live, there are a few local service stations that sell used cars on consignment. I had to send the original POA when I sold my parents houses in FL and MD; in both cases it was FedEx'd back to me about 2 weeks later after the transfer of the deed was recorded.
TCL1990
Posted: Friday, February 9, 2018 8:57 AM
Joined: 10/17/2017
Posts: 49


After some direct complaints to headquarters, it looks like they are going to try and help me.  I will follow up and let everyone know.  My elder care attorney is also in the mix, so I am hopeful.
feudman
Posted: Saturday, February 10, 2018 6:08 AM
Joined: 6/5/2014
Posts: 1082


As POA, I had a similar problem transferring my mom's car title at AAA. Even though she was clueless & barely ambulatory, they insisted she come in. I had the clerk go out to the car & she made some marks on the signature line. They didn't ask for ID, so she could have been anyone.

I would suppose they are just following orders, and it's not a lack of compassion. Glad they are working with you now.


TCL1990
Posted: Monday, February 12, 2018 3:02 PM
Joined: 10/17/2017
Posts: 49


Well, CarMax has agreed to recognize my guardianship, though they want a 'true and certified' copy.  My attorney just said she will go about obtaining a copy for me!  Hoorah.  Another checkmark on my very long list.   Persistence in combination with some social media did the trick.  I hope CarMax begins to change their corporate SOPs to understand what is truly meant by guardianship at each of their locations. 

 


GemsWinner12
Posted: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 8:56 AM
Joined: 7/17/2017
Posts: 159


I have NEVER given ANYONE an original copy of my POA.  (or guardianship) . Don't do it.  

Make (double sided if needed) color copies and give them one.  Those original documents are gold and should be treated as such. Insist they give you back your original which you already gave them!!!!  Cause a fuss right there in the office if you need to.   I've had such uninformed and "know it all" employees from every kind of business imaginable try to tell me this that the other.  Take care and TAKE VERY GOOD CARE of those documents.  They will be your ONLY way to get things done in certain circumstances and you will really regret giving them all away just for a few thousand dollars to sell a car.  


TCL1990
Posted: Thursday, February 15, 2018 6:28 AM
Joined: 10/17/2017
Posts: 49


Yeah, I learned a valuable lesson regarding giving away a signed POA.  I have another original which will never leave my side. But the problem with CarMax is that they wanted another original for the second vehicle and they wouldn’t recognize my Guardianship. After some complaining to headquarters, they reviewed my docs and now are recognizing the guardianship.  I do have to obtain a ‘true and certified’ copy from the County courthouse where the hearing took place, which is fine, and we had to do it for other things like setting up trusts and deed transfers.  But at least they have finally come around.  I hope others dealing with them will have an easier time.  It is convenient and quite honestly safer selling vehicles to them than trying to do it independently and dealing with strangers.
gubblebumm
Posted: Thursday, February 15, 2018 8:10 AM
Joined: 7/12/2017
Posts: 732


A true and certified copy is a photocopy usually with a stamp stating its a copy of the original, doesn't guarantee original is genuine, just its a real copy.  I bet they just asked for it to justify being difficult. But if you are getting one, might as well get a couple more at the same time

melbam
Posted: Friday, February 16, 2018 3:26 AM
Joined: 1/12/2018
Posts: 4


I am having similar problems canceling a lost credit card that was opened years ago and has not been used for at least 4 years.  (My folks got 2 sets of Slate Visas with each having a primary and secondary assigned).  I sent a copy of the POA that is filed at the local court house but Slate Visa just says that that gets me the privilege of asking questions about the account but not act on their behalf to cancel the duplicate account - even though the POA says I can serve as the agent and make any financial decisions necessary on their behalf.  What gives with these corporations?  We already paid an attorney to write up the POA...do we now need to hire her to argue it for us as well????
Jo C.
Posted: Friday, February 16, 2018 6:27 AM
Joined: 12/9/2011
Posts: 8879


Hello melbam, I too encountered such a situation.   I actually ran my mother's name through all credit bureaus and found that between the three of them, she had no less than sixteen open accounts!   She had several credit cards that I could lay my hands on.  

When I contacted several credit companies, they wanted a complete copy of my Financial DPOA sent to them and it would take one month to two months to process closing the account depending on which company I was speaking to.    Our DPOA was a rather large document and I was going to have to have multiple copies made and then wait months to have it all processed?

Unacceptable.

So . . . . I waited a week or two, then re-contacted the credit companies using my mother's name and pretending I was her.   I told them I wanted to close my account.  I had the account numbers from the cards as well as the account numbers off reports.  I also knew my mother's social security number as well as her mother's maiden name.  

Guess what?   They closed the accounts right on the spot!   No fuss, just done.  I also asked them to not send any marketing or mail whatsoever and to take me (mother) off their call lists.  They all complied.

Then we had my aged step-dad who also had significanta dementia and had open credit.  My step-brother stepped up and did the same thing I did, once again; success.

While I do not ever like telling a lie, this was about parent safety.

J.


Rockym
Posted: Friday, February 16, 2018 9:47 AM
Joined: 1/17/2016
Posts: 746


I also cancelled all of my mother's cards, except the one bank card we use for her.  Same as Jo, I found it easier to call and just say I was her.  I know every piece of information they asked and yes, it was all about protecting her and her money.  I also went online and set up all of my mom's accounts with a screen name and password so I have access to it all.  Some of her accounts are set up with her name and then Payable On Death (POD) with my name.  She did this years ago before she was ill.

The only change we made was to add my name to one checking account.  This way, if I did have to go into the bank, I could deposit or withdraw easily.  I keep only what is needed in that account and if I need to pay more of her bills, I go online and move money into that account.  I think I set it up this way so that if by chance I am sued, they cannot come after my mom's money.  Only what we share in that account.


Agent 99
Posted: Friday, February 16, 2018 11:01 AM
Joined: 6/7/2013
Posts: 2127


When ever possible I impersonated/signed for my sweetie as well.  If they had to speak with him, which never made any sense because I know they didn't have voice recognition, I would listen and tell him what to say.  
I would sdvise to challenge & escalate to upper management any organization that requests you to give an official copy of Powers of Attorney, living wills, etc. since as this poster experienced we only get a couple of those &  very costly to get more. I would just let them view it in my presence then grab it back.  
When they needed the official document, in my case it was my sweeties death certificate, I included a note requesting they return it even though I had plenty of official copies.  100% were returned.  Just to show how crazy things have gotten, I had to show the official death certificate to cancel my sweeties Costco membership (not the credit card)!  With death certificates, they don't cost thousands to generate, so when the time comes request many additional official copies.  I got 15 at the time of my LOs psssing,  It is not so cumbersome to get more if needed but it's a stressful task worth avoiding Plus in my case it was $15 less to get them the first time than requesting copies later. 
With as many institutions that I can, I communicate now by email to the address on the contact page or I do chat.  It is so much less aggravating than waiting on the phone, and with chat the connection to the rep has always been faster than if I phoned.
It may be different now but whenever the hospital asked if I was DPOA I replied yes.  If they requested to see copy I didn't bother & there was never any followup, except for my sweeties long term stay in rehab hospital.  So don't fret about it when the inevitable unplanned & even planned trip there occurs.  If they really want it you will receive followup calls.  THe rep checking LO in frankly could care less.  Just checking the box.
THe stats indicate that the majority of identity theft is done by people who know us well - after taking care of all these financial & other tasks as my sweetie I understand why that is.  I told myself & any who challenged me that this is in his best interest & I can prove it.  So butt out!

TCL1990
Posted: Friday, February 16, 2018 11:47 AM
Joined: 10/17/2017
Posts: 49


Hi all,  I had good luck cancelling things like Direct TV, Netflix, gym memberships and a few other services without even using POA or guardianship.  But, CarMax as well as Chase Visa, their cable provider required copies of POA and/or guardianship.  With Chase, after they reviewed the documentation, I was able to cancel it straightaway.  Their cable provider in FL were total pills and kept me on the hook as long as possible to get an extra month of billing out of my parents. 

In terms of banks, Wells Fargo was easy to work with, but SunTrust was a disaster.  PNC has also been challenging.  At times, my elder care attorney has been sitting there with me to deal with them and they still have to send every little detail off to legal for review. 

Handling their affairs is definitely a marathon, not a sprint.  Good luck all.  It's great to have all of you here.  It's helped me tremendously.

 

 


Agent 99
Posted: Friday, February 16, 2018 12:04 PM
Joined: 6/7/2013
Posts: 2127


Here's an interesting article.  The second half is most informative:

https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/10/health/finding-out-your-power-of-attorney-is-powerless.html

Plus interesting comment from reader.

I discovered this unpleasant phenomenon last year. Our eldercare attorney assured me that was illegal...tell that to Chase Manhattan Bank and Ameriprise. Fortunately, I had a good relationship of many years with my mother's advisor at Ameriprise, and he arranged for a team that included a notary public from our attorney's office to come to my demented mother's bedside so she could "sign" 5 papers. Everyone was very apologetic that this was necessary. One thing I have not been able to bear is to look at what that cost me in billable hours.
As to Chase bank, same deal - I had to arrange for a notary to come to my mother's bedside. Ironically, the notaries clearly saw my mother didn't understand what she was signing, but when it was explained to her she said the magic word "Yes". More irony; I had my mother's POA to sign checks and also her ATM card. I simply could have withdrawn all her money from her accounts over the course of a few days.


Jo C.
Posted: Friday, February 16, 2018 12:48 PM
Joined: 12/9/2011
Posts: 8879


I did what Rockym did also.   Another thing  I did was to have each credit bureau account frozen.  Cost $20 each.   This kept any entity whatsoever from getting any infomation or credit history; no marketing, no scams, LO with severely compromised judgement could no longer try to conduct financial disasters, (had problems with that for awhile.)   We also had our own credit bureau accounts frozen; if ever needed, one can "unfreeze."  It is a good idea for most everyone.

Because of concern re accessing LOs accounts if it ever became necessary, I checked with each bank to ensure whether or not we needed their own POA forms.   None did . . . . BUT . . . . a couple of years later, this changed at one bank.   It was not pleasant.  I had to keep going over one manager's head to another until I reached a person in a high enough decision making capacity to have our legal DPOA honored and I had to really stand firm to get that done.

I also found it necessary for some institutions that we needed our DPOAs registered and certified in the county in which we resided.  Easy peasy; took about 15 minutes at a court house and about $38.   Government stamp on the document, my ID confirmed, and all was well.

It is amazing the things we must do, and how we do not know we must do these things.  Anyway, it was good to have it all done . . . . until the time I had to process the Trust and sell the house after the parent's deaths . . . . but that is another story.

J.

 


only1bones
Posted: Friday, February 16, 2018 1:02 PM
Joined: 4/29/2017
Posts: 105


I've pretended to be my mom too.  I tried the proper way and was just met with resistance so sometimes I'm my mom.  It's not like I'm trying to open credit cards or anything-I'm trying to clean up the mess.
TCL1990
Posted: Monday, February 19, 2018 1:30 PM
Joined: 10/17/2017
Posts: 49


The saga continues.  I received a letter from the state of FL (where my father's car was registered) asking for an original POA.  As CarMax  now has the car, my elder care attorney advised me not to deal with this as it is in CarMax's hands now.  I hope so.  Not one darn thing is every simple or easy.
Victoria2020
Posted: Monday, February 19, 2018 4:16 PM
Joined: 9/21/2017
Posts: 151


If the State is balking at the retitling of the car , how can your attorney be certain you are legally removed as the owner?

I've been contacted for parking tickets for cars long ago donated to charity and had to provide my copy of a signed title release to the charity  and the proof of certified mailing I sent notice of sale to Motor vehicles to get off the hook. We have a two part process- the title document the charity got and then the notice to the State the seller sends in .

Do you have iron-clad proof you are off the title?

 


 
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