Apply Now

Standard Monthly Site Maintenance Scheduled for Wednesday, September 22nd from 8:30 p.m. CT to 2 a.m. CT.  Click here for more information.

RSS Feed Print
The unvaccinated continue to die at the same high rate
Crushed
Posted: Tuesday, July 20, 2021 5:34 PM
Joined: 2/2/2014
Posts: 6691


From today's Washington post

The result is startling: Missouri’s case rate among unvaccinated people is as high as its overall case rate in mid-January, near the state’s peak of coronavirus infections.......

“With the arrival of delta, we will have two very different epidemics — one a mild cold in vaccinated individuals, and then we continue to have deadly infections in unvaccinated individuals,” said William Powderly, an infectious-disease specialist and director of the Institute for Public Health at Washington University in St. Louis.

“The people who need to come to hospital, who end up in the intensive care unit, and the people who die are almost exclusively unvaccinated individuals,” he said, noting that his hospital has three times the covid-19 patients it had in late June.....

The adjusted rates in several states show the pandemic is spreading as fast among the unvaccinated as it did during the winter surge. Florida, Arkansas, Missouri, Nevada and Louisiana all have coronavirus case spikes among the unvaccinated, with adjusted rates double or triple the adjusted national rate......
Covid-19 is killing almost exclusively unvaccinated people, according to Rochelle Walensky, director of the CDC.....

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/interactive/2021/unvaccinated-case-rate-delta-surge/?itid=hp_pandemic

KIFR  Known Infection Fatality Ratio is at 1.9% for the most recent 21 day period

However daily average infections have nearly TRIPLED in the last 21 days  We are watching to see if deaths go up at the same rate 


Quilting brings calm
Posted: Tuesday, July 20, 2021 7:16 PM
Joined: 10/16/2020
Posts: 505


I live  in Illinois. We were on restrictions for quite a while after other states. Our numbers are climbing back up.  The worst part…. There have been at least 5 church camps for tweens  and teens that have had high numbers of positive cases in the past month.  

 Why?  Well the campers and counselors families are resistant to vaccination, resistant to the unvaccinated wearing masks, and some of the campers aren’t old enough if their parents did believe in it.  Had a friend call and tell us his 12 year old tested positive this week after a church camp.  They fall in the categories I mentioned. 


Crushed
Posted: Thursday, July 22, 2021 6:01 AM
Joined: 2/2/2014
Posts: 6691


Infections and deaths are increasing again rapidly

Low point of infections  (All 7 day 7 day average)  
June 21   11,999     Deaths 21 days later , July 12   248     KIFR  2%  (known infection fatality ratio) 

latest number   June 30  13638 infections  July 21  234 deaths     KIFR  1.9%

Infections (7 day average July 21 42,068 

infections have more than tripled in a month  
Deaths can be expected to do the same. 

 For a "one day point" not very accurate but sometimes useful

Deaths yesterday  416   infections 21 days ago  17,211   KIFR 2.4%

Since the long term KIFR  from this disease is about 1.6 we are clearly seriously under counting infections. which make the one day infection count yesterday of 56525 even scarier

  IMHO  Get everyone one you know vaccinated and avoid unvaccinated people
LIKE THE PLAGUE
 


Lane Simonian
Posted: Thursday, July 22, 2021 9:30 AM
Joined: 12/12/2011
Posts: 4973


A conjunction of three unfortunate events happened at the same time: the arrival of the Delta variant, large numbers of people gathering for the Fourth of July holiday, and large numbers of people no longer wearing masks.

My opinion is that public health officials made a big miscalculation.  They thought that by promising people they no longer had to wear masks if they got vaccinated, they would encourage more people to be vaccinated.  But it is highly likely that both vaccinated individuals as well as unvaccinated individuals can spread the virus while being asympotmatic.  The spread of the virus is high both in areas with high vaccination rates and low vaccination rates (Los Angeles County versus Las Vegas, for instance).  Both Los Angeles county and Las Vegas have reinstituted mask mandates (although the gaming commission in Nevada has not reinstituted mask mandates in casinos which likely limits the effectiveness of the mandate).  The message should not be vaccinate and get rid of your mask; the message should be vaccinate and mask.


French
Posted: Thursday, July 22, 2021 12:43 PM
Joined: 6/13/2020
Posts: 348


Yes, here it is the same. It increases a lot, but not the deaths for the moment because 85% of old people are vaccinated. They announced that 94% of infected people were not vaccinated. 

We now have a « pass ». You can’t go to restaurant, malls, cinema, camping, hotel, travel by train… without being vaccinated or tested. It’s very hard for young people who only have been allowed to vaccinate for one month and can’t be fully vaccinated. Students who have already been hit a lot by this crisis are often still not vaccinated, and now they can’t have holidays.


Crushed
Posted: Thursday, July 22, 2021 1:57 PM
Joined: 2/2/2014
Posts: 6691


France's low point on infections was June 27  and the 21 day death date was July 17  with a KIFR of 1.2 %   (which is on the low side of the the standard range )   But since then the average infections have QUINTUPLED

Watching closely


Quilting brings calm
Posted: Thursday, July 22, 2021 9:45 PM
Joined: 10/16/2020
Posts: 505


My spouse had a doctor appointment today with a pulmonologist.  We got told he has no major problems, even with a family history of COPD.  At the end of the  appointment, the doctor talked to my spouse about the Delta variant, and how many it is infecting and how serious  it gets.  He told him that the vaccinated are getting through it without a hospital stay, but that the unvaccinated are the ones  ending up in the hospital.  He told him that as a lung doctor, he is seeing the after affects of the virus in survivors. My spouse has diabetes and that doctor talked him right into getting his first shot. I drove him straight to a vaccination site! I’ve been trying to convince him for months 

I’ve been vaccinated for months as have our adult offspring. 


Crushed
Posted: Saturday, July 24, 2021 6:05 AM
Joined: 2/2/2014
Posts: 6691


The covid epidemic of the unvaccinated is EXPLODING
7 day averages
Lowest date for infections June 21  11999   cases
21 days later deaths                              248
Known infection fatality ratio              2.0% 

21 days before yesterday (July 2)      14378   cases
deaths yesterday               July 23          280  
KIFR                                                     1.9%

One day KIFR         July 2   19250 cases
                                 July 21    428 Deaths    
KIFR                                          2.2 %

July 23  7 day average cases   49,800
July 23 1 day               cases     67,485

We are looking at a projection of almost a thousand deaths a day in 21 days
 
 
Yesterdays deaths were very concentrated  Texas and Florida  with 50 million people had 202 deaths or 4 per million   California and New York with 60 million people had 50 deaths Or .8 deaths per million people

In areas with low vaccination rates , vaccinated people can be the carriers who give it to the unvaccinated. With a KIFR of 2.0 we are clearly not doing enough testing among those who are less likely to die from the disease I.e. the vaccinated.  

States are probably too large a unit since the vaccination rates vary widely across states  
Researchers using counties and zip codes have identified vast portions of the USA who are vulnerable to this surge

As always Alzheimer's patients and caretakers are the canary in the coal mine  

 

 

 


Jo C.
Posted: Saturday, July 24, 2021 8:54 AM
Joined: 12/9/2011
Posts: 11948


Came upon these interviews this morning; it gives quite an insight and is well worth watching the link.   In such mind(less) sets, there are not words sufficient.   I now have a greater appreciation of  the deep, deep complexity that exists and that these individuals will continue to permit not only the staggering increase in the number of cases; but said individuals will also become the incubators that will foster the evolution of additional more dangerous mutations.  Contnue to watch the link past the nurse prank interview, it is really stunning . 

https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/nurse-reveals-her-prank-covid-064349958.html

It is now thought that this new surge is not expected to peak until October.  Right on top of winter when further increase is expected along with influenza.  It really is like a sci fi film, but alas. 

I also agree with Lane.  Dreadful, dreadful miscalculation.  And the CDC still treading water; really?  Disappointing.  American Pediatric Association not disappointing.  The politicalization of this? In my minds eye, an abomination

It is imposssible to fathom what the outcome will actually be - I am not that smart.

J.

 .


Lorita
Posted: Saturday, July 24, 2021 9:27 AM
Joined: 12/18/2011
Posts: 13302


Unbelievable!  I cannot for the life of me understand why people are so resistant to beign vaccinated.  Is it because of what our past president has said? He's been vaccinated even after he had covid. 

 It's going to be awfully hard to get a handle on this virus if people don't get vaccinated - or can it be done?  I will continue to wear my mask and stay away from people as much as possible - - maybe for the rest of my life.  Who knows?


Paris20
Posted: Saturday, July 24, 2021 11:58 AM
Joined: 5/30/2019
Posts: 115


At first I thought of the unvaccinated as just a bunch of ignoramuses, people who were simply uninformed. Now, however, I am more aware of the consequences of their decision and I’m angry. They are providing the virus with more human hosts, who not only can spread Covid but also provide opportunities to create more variants. Will those variants make current vaccines ineffective? Will they be even more communicable and deadly than the delta variant? Are those who refuse vaccination thinking at all or are superstition, rejection of scientific evidence, and belief in loony conspiracy theories going to endanger everybody? How ignorant, and selfish.
Stuck in the middle
Posted: Saturday, July 24, 2021 3:17 PM
Joined: 6/4/2017
Posts: 1367


Here in one of the hot spots, some people are using a medicine prescribed by veterinarians for worming cattle to prevent and treat Covid.  Since Covid is not an intestinal parasite, this makes no sense but there it is.  One man who was very ill at home for weeks is convinced he pulled through only because he took the worming medicine.  

The lead story on the news every night is hospitals reopening the Covid wards and lining beds up in the halls.  The governor has declared SW Missouri a disaster area and is sending in emergency medical teams like they do after tornadoes, and has finally started encouraging people to get their shots.  And the streets are full of cars with out of state plates, because this is a major tourist destination.  So, you are next, wherever you are.  Your traveling neighbors are on their way home with infection as we speak.


Lane Simonian
Posted: Saturday, July 24, 2021 8:27 PM
Joined: 12/12/2011
Posts: 4973


I am going to meander for a bit.  For better or worse that is what I do best.

I wonder if you told people that about a hundred people had died from breakthrough infections after getting the coronavirus vaccine and about a hundred people had died from blood clots after a few hundred millions shots would that make people more likely or less likely to get the vaccine.

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/70/wr/mm7021e3.htm

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-tyne-57677606

Some would say "see the government lied to us when they said the vaccines were safe and effective, and I don't want to risk killing myself with the vaccine."

Others would say, "the chances of dying from the vaccines is infestimally small and my chances of dying from the coronavirus are much higher."  So it is hard to say if being honest about the numbers would increase or decrease vaccine hesitancy.

There is a fifth vaccine a month or two away from likely be granted emergence use approval from the FDA called Novavax.  If it works as advertised, this is a very ingenious vaccine.  By using a saponin adjuvant it increases the bodies immune response, which means that you have to use fewer spike proteins, which means the chances of an autoimmune response should go from very rare to potentially non-existent.  Saponins also reduce inflammation and oxidation thus further reducing the risk of the vaccine.

Because of their anti-inflammatory and anti-oxidant properties, saponins (such as in panax ginseng) also are good candidates for the treatment of Alzheimer's disease.

Saponins, an important group of bioactive plant natural products, are glycosides of triterpenoid or steroidal aglycones. Their diverse biological activities are ascribed to their different structures. Saponins have long been recognized as key ingredients in traditional Chinese medicine. Accumulated evidence suggests that saponins have significant neuroprotective effects on attenuation of central nervous system disorders, such as stroke, Alzheimer's disease, Parkinson's disease, and Huntington's disease. However, our understanding of the mechanisms underlying the observed effects remains incomplete. Based on recently reported data from basic and clinical studies, this review highlights the proposed mechanisms of their neuroprotective function including antioxidant, modulation of neurotransmitters, anti-apoptosis, anti-inflammation, attenuating Ca(2+) influx, modulating neurotrophic factors, inhibiting tau phosphorylation, and regeneration of neural networks.


Crushed
Posted: Sunday, July 25, 2021 7:18 AM
Joined: 2/2/2014
Posts: 6691


Lane Simonian wrote:

I am going to meander for a bit.  For better or worse that is what I do best.



IMHO  You might stop promoting Ginseng and stick to real science.  

I live in Bethesda Md. Novavax is right up the road in Gathersburg. 

from wiki History

Novavax was founded in 1987 to focus on experimental vaccine development, but as of early 2021 has not yet completed commercialization of any vaccine product.[5]  

In June 2013, Novavax acquired the Matrix-M adjuvant platform with the purchase of Swedish company Isconova AB and renamed its new subsidiary Novavax AB.[6]  


They have been promoting Matrix M for years.  Matrix M is a specific saponin derivative  IT WOULD HAVE NO DIRECT EFFECT ON COVID 

It is promoted to make an effective vaccine work better 

But the Novavax vaccine is slightly less effective than  Pfeizer and Moderna   but easieer to handle

The use of saponin in  the Novavax covid vaccine simply has noting to do with Alzheimers.
 IF we had a vaccine for Alzheimer's saponin might make it more efficient 
But we dont.

  

 

  


Lane Simonian
Posted: Sunday, July 25, 2021 10:33 AM
Joined: 12/12/2011
Posts: 4973



This is a very small point, but the Novavax vaccine appears to be slightly more effective than Pfizer and Moderna.  It has been tested against most of the variants, but not the delta variant.  Perhaps, most importantly it appears to be safer than the mRNA vaccines.

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/06/novavax-now-best-covid-19-vaccine/619276/

One of the properties of saponins is that they act as antivirals.  

Isolated saponins and tannins were evaluated for antiviral activity against SARS-CoV-2 (Mpro) via Molecular Docking and it was observed that a handsome number of the phytochemicals had binding affinities much better than Remdesivir, Dexamethasone, and N3 inhibitor which were used as the standards in this study. (Although this study goes on to note that only four of the saponins and tannins screened appeared to have any effect; in some cases the others failed due to poor bioavailability).

This one is for acute respiratory illness and not the coronavirus itself but should have been worth investigating.

Preventive Effect of Korean Red Ginseng for Acute Respiratory Illness: A Randomized and Double-Blind Clinical Trial

The study suggests that KRG may be effective in protecting subjects from contracting ARI, and may have the tendency to decrease the duration and scores of ARI symptoms.

The problem is not often the direct effects of the virus itself, but the body's overimmune response to the virus. Saponins then have two potential advantages: they are antiviral and they dampen too strong of an immune response.

The vaccines appeared to be the easy way out of the pandemic.  But resistance to them in part due to concerns about long-term efficacy/efficacy against certain variants, and fears regarding rare autoimmune responses is slowing vaccination rates.  Developing treatments was a much harder hill to climb especially when miracle drugs were being touted, but we seem to be fighting this pandemic with one hand tied behind our back.  In addition the vaccines gave a false sense of security and provided an excuse for both vaccinated and unvaccinated people to stop wearing masks.


 


Quilting brings calm
Posted: Sunday, July 25, 2021 10:47 AM
Joined: 10/16/2020
Posts: 505


What I was told months ago is to get whatever vaccine is available in your area.  Vaccinated is better than unvaccinated. Moderna and Pfizer are highly effective, Johnson and Johnson almost as much. The people who aren’t vaccinated ( and are medically eligible for vaccination) are unvaccinated because they believe  the vaccinations are politically driven.  Or they  believe that the vaccines make you sterile, changes your DNA, etc. or that the government is trying to get control of your body. I have extended relatives who are nurses that are spouting those exact phrases.  

My spouse finally got his first shot this week after coaxing by a lung doctor. Why did he finally believe the lung doctor and not the public health department, the CDC, the media , etc?  His answer - well, the doctor told me to put politics aside and to get it because I needed it.  Seriously that is it.  

The new vaccine you are discussing might be better, but again, it’s not going to persuade the vaccine holdouts to get vaccinated. Because they will think that vaccine is also politically driven. 


Lane Simonian
Posted: Sunday, July 25, 2021 12:10 PM
Joined: 12/12/2011
Posts: 4973


Absolutely, but with one small caveat.  There is a small group that is not politically motivated but who do not trust adenovirus or mRNA vaccines (they are not necessarily anti-government, but tend to be anti-pharmaceutical).  This may be a very small segment of the unvaccinated population, but even if you can get just a bit more of the population vaccinated that is helpful.


Lane Simonian
Posted: Sunday, July 25, 2021 12:15 PM
Joined: 12/12/2011
Posts: 4973


The saponins used in the Noravax virus come from the Chilean soapbark tree:

Natural, aqueous extracts of Quillaja saponaria, the Chilean soapbark tree, contain several physiologically active triterpenoid saponins that display strong adjuvant activity when used in either human or animal vaccines. In this paper, we describe studies that demonstrate a novel antiviral activity of Quillaja extracts against six viruses: vaccinia virus, herpes simplex virus type 1, varicella zoster virus, human immunodeficiency viruses 1 and 2 (HIV-1, HIV-2) and reovirus. We demonstrate that microgram amounts of extract, while exhibiting no cell cytotoxicity or direct virucidal activity, prevent each of the six viruses tested from infecting their host cells. In addition, the presence of residual amounts of extract continue to block virus infection and render cells resistant to infection for at least 16 h after the removal of the extract from the cell culture medium. We demonstrate that a Quillaja extract possesses strong antiviral activity at concentrations more than 100-fold lower than concentrations that exhibit cell cytotoxicity. Extract concentrations as high as 100 microg ml(-1) are not cytotoxic, but concentrations as low as 0.1 microg ml(-1) are able to block HIV-1 and HIV-2 virus attachment and infection.


Crushed
Posted: Sunday, July 25, 2021 4:39 PM
Joined: 2/2/2014
Posts: 6691


Lane Simonian wrote:


This is a very small point, but the Novavax vaccine appears to be slightly more effective than Pfizer and Moderna.  It has been tested against most of the variants, but not the delta variant.  Perhaps, most importantly it appears to be safer than the mRNA vaccines. 

As of 4 days ago Yale medicine  said there was not enough evidence to fully evaluate novavax

They have of course not submitted any data to FDa or Journals  

 Comparing the COVID-19 Vaccines: How Are They Different?

https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/covid-19-vaccine-comparison

I suggest you preface all statemnts about novavax with TEH COMPANY CLAIMED INA PRESS RELEASE THAT
  

https://www.theatlantic.com/health/archive/2021/06/novavax-now-best-covid-19-vaccine/619276/

One of the properties of saponins is that they act as antivirals.  

JUST STOP RIGHT THERE

there is a medical definition of  anti viral drug  and a QUACK  definition definitionof anit viral substances

There is a very limited set of  antiviral drugs
They follow the medical definition
https://journals.asm.org/doi/10.1128/CMR.00102-15

08 June 2016


  
 There are literally THOUSANDS of antiviral chemicals Including Trump's Bleach
 

QUACKS promote those chemicals.  

ANTI VIRALS ARE EASY THE TRICK IS MAKING AN ANTIVIRAL DRUG


  
  



Stuck in the middle
Posted: Sunday, July 25, 2021 5:18 PM
Joined: 6/4/2017
Posts: 1367


We got the Moderna vaccine, and are doing fine.  Several neighbors, including the couple across the street, got Covid but we didn't.  

Our doctors' advice has been good so far.  I think we'll stay with it, and leave the cattle wormers and ditch weeds to the people who don't trust doctors or government officials.


Jo C.
Posted: Sunday, July 25, 2021 5:46 PM
Joined: 12/9/2011
Posts: 11948


Just heard that Arkansas is moving to pass a law that forbids mask mandates.  Governor said that we do not need to be arguing about masks; we need to develop a vaccine. 

  


Stuck in the middle
Posted: Sunday, July 25, 2021 5:55 PM
Joined: 6/4/2017
Posts: 1367


Masks and soap are optional here too.  Some of us choose to use them voluntarily.
Crushed
Posted: Sunday, July 25, 2021 6:09 PM
Joined: 2/2/2014
Posts: 6691


Of course surviving the Covid vaccine is optional too.  In the last week  1820 people, virtually all unvaccinated  DIED of covid .  More than the TITANIC

There are about 60  gun homicides by strangers per week in the USA  but that sends folks out to buy every kind of firearm they can find.  Don't wear a mask but carry a gun? 
 

 
  
 


Stunned805
Posted: Sunday, July 25, 2021 8:24 PM
Joined: 9/8/2018
Posts: 279


I got my first Covid shot two weeks ago. I have my second shot scheduled for this Thursday. I'm not resisting it. The shot did not hurt. I've had shots that hurt worse.
Stuck in the middle
Posted: Sunday, July 25, 2021 9:14 PM
Joined: 6/4/2017
Posts: 1367


I've been hurt worse by jalapenos.  It's no big deal.  Having Covid is.
Stuck in the middle
Posted: Sunday, July 25, 2021 10:23 PM
Joined: 6/4/2017
Posts: 1367


A month in ICU would cost about a million bucks.  Vaccines are free.
Sayra
Posted: Monday, July 26, 2021 5:33 AM
Joined: 8/10/2016
Posts: 3134


Hope I can remember your thoughts stuck in the middle.  I like them.

 


Stuck in the middle
Posted: Monday, July 26, 2021 9:53 AM
Joined: 6/4/2017
Posts: 1367


Thanks, Sayra.  You're welcome to them.
 
× Close Menu